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Knock after rebuild

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MooCow View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 12:35am
Looking for a little advice, just finished a engine out rebuild on the 134l. Immediately after start up I hear a little knock low on the passenger side on the #3/ maybe #4 cylinder.  Don’t hear it on the front two. Used a stethoscope, knock increases with Rpm but can’t hear it by ear at higher rpm. Rebuild included new crank and bearings.  All bearings plastic gaged and were in spec. One of the cylinders has about 2 thousands more side play than it should had but it was not number three.  New oil pump with the rebuild and I have 40 psi at start up and didn’t seam to vary to much with different rpms. 10 miles into test drive pressure would go up to 45 when I would let off the gas.  Oil pressure really never went below 35 in any situation.  Engine ran great other than this issue. Opinions on what the next step should be?
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Bruce W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 12:48am
  Try disconnecting each spark plug, one at a time, while the engine is running. Listen for the knock to decrease, go away, get louder, double-up, etc. If you pull the plug wires at the distributor end you shouldn’t get bit. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 1:07am
Try pulling the dip stick and running it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MooCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 1:39am
Tried the dipstick, not that lucky!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncamoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 2:08am
The odd sized piston should be a clue. Unless you gauged  them all? They sometimes get stamped as the wrong size.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom in RI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 2:15am
Is this a loud rod knock? Or a subtle knock?
If it is a loud knock consider dropping the pan and pulling a main cap to see whats happening with the bearings. 
Going from memory here but the center main has an oil passage into the main oil gallery. It is possible to install bearings that do not have the necesary hole to allow oil to flow from the gallery into the center main. This would be bad.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MooCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 2:53am
I still have standard size pistons with new rings 500 miles ago. Everything check out at that time.  I had to do the crank because I did a valve job and re-ring 500 miles ago and screwed up and use standard rod bearings when I shouldn’t have and chewed up the rod journals on the crank. So when I just did the rebuild I reused the pistons and rings as everything still checked out. I did have to change a piston rod as the one that chewed up the bearing looked like it had been pretty hot and was hard to get the cap on and off without force.  I replaced it with a like rod. My motor only has 20,000 original miles. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MooCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 2:57am
At this point it is a minor knock bit you can still hear it at low rpm, higher rpm the engine is to loud. The bearings were installed correctly.  I’m pretty sure this is a rod problem and not a main problem but I guess you never know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 10:08am
When you replaced the rod, did the big end get checked for Out of Round, (OoR), taper, & size?

How about the weight, does it weigh close to what the other rods weigh?

You are aware that there are two different rods in the engine two of each of the different rods, right? I would need to look up what the differences are, but if you have three of one kind and one of the other, or four of a kind, the pistons +/or the camshaft will not get enough oil squirted at them/it. This would lead to a knocking sound.

Do the easy stuff first. Try Bruce W.s test and get back to us.

Thanks, Cpt Logger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 5:49pm
The difference in the rods is they are offset, not sure they can be installed incorrectly if the piston and rod assemblies are correctly assembled, but I haven't tried that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncamoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 6:21pm
If my aged brain still works, the rods are the same but you turn them 180 degrees to change the offset.
Many moons ago for my 134 rebuild, MB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MooCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 6:51pm
It is the correct rod, even had the correct number stamped on it.  I had a buddy who had a box of rods and I was able to find one that looked and measured the same as mine and the casting numbers were very similar. I did not have it checked out other than visual, measuring and bolting it up and checking tolerances and side play.  My bad one had none and would lock up the crank when tightened. This one seemed fine. I did not weigh it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncamoney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb. 2021 at 7:04pm
You seem to be heading down the right road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 3:40am
Did you check wrist pin to piston clearance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MooCow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 4:34am
I did not, probably should have. It seemed to feel like the other assembled pistons. Does the wrist pin turn in the rod? I assumed the piston turns on the pin but doesn’t on the rod because of the bolt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 4:39am
The wrist pin is clamped in the rod end and pivots in the piston. Its a tight tolerance that is often overlooked. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSR_MK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 2:53pm
I would be interested in hearing what you find. I have a very similar knock in my M38. It developed about 9 months after I got it running. I have been using it as my daily chore jeep for a little over a year since the knock started and nothing has changed. I have pulled the pan and checked the rod bearings, pulled the head and checked the top side, ran the valves twice with out finding anything. Good oil pressure, 40 at idle and around 45 running, normal vacuum and compression. I feel it’s a lose wrist pin but really felt it would worsen over time. I drive it around 10 miles a day 6 to 7 days a week and have for over a year with no change. Funny how it’s easy to hear at idle but once you get your rpms up you don’t hear it. Don’t always hear it on a warm startup but most of the time you do. 

Mike 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar. 2021 at 6:00pm
Not say’in this is your issue but something to consider, engine ticked/knocked bad at idle and went away above 1000 rpm.



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