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Knots?

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BD1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Jan. 2022 at 8:47pm
This is a continuation of a thread Bight started in the tech section on "Winch Lines and fairleads". I'm dragging it farther off topic so I ,moved it here.
I am increasingly surprised by the younger folks I meet at work who have no practical knowledge of knots at all beyond the ability to tie their shoes. How did we get to this point?  In my mind anyone needs to know at least six basic knots/hitches to get through life beyond the desk:
Bowline, clove hitch, prussic knot, water knot, figure 8 and the truckers hitch.
The slip knot, sheet bend, fishermans knot and square knot are handy as well.
Thoughts?
Additions?
I'm not even going into the inability to throw a rope in any real fashion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2022 at 10:08pm
Somewhat similar configuration to a Prussic knot but perhaps more commonly used would be the ring knot and the ring knot secured.
All in all, I suppose it mainly depends on what a persons immediate needs are.
In today’s world there are so very many kinds and types of mechanical fasteners in lieu of knots.


Edited by oldtime - 19 Jan. 2022 at 10:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 10:08am
As a retired Coast Guardsman, we had to learn all manners of knots and they have been somewhat useful in a non-nautical environment. Honestly, I don't use them much...but when I do, the knowledge is second nature. Correctly tying a bowline is probably the most useful in my opinion.

I see lots of kids nowadays that run around with shoes untied. What's up with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drm101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 11:24am
The bowline is the only one I remember from my boat owning days. I guess I need a review.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windyhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 12:01pm
People don't even know how to tie shoes or read a clock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 12:13pm
also being a former coastie we towed a lot of stuff and the bowline was the best. you could tow a battleship and the one great thing with that knot is that you could always get it untied! a 'bowline on a bite' was the best
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 12:16pm
Your list is really pretty good.  I taught advanced campcraft for years.  There are 9 knots that we taught.  

The only additions / changes I would suggest are:

Teach a double fisherman's knot - not a fisherman's knot - the double fisherman's knot does not need to be tended and can be used to permanently join two sections of rope (reading climbing rope/ winch line).  After loading, it will need to be removed with a sharp knife.

Teach a double sheet bend knot - not a sheet bend - the double sheet bend does not need to be tended.  This knot was originally used to join the cloth corner of a sail to a section of rope.  In a strong wind, you want that extra wrap to insure it will not come undone.   This knot can be used in the corner of a trap or other fabric or for joining ropes of different diameters. 
------

We also taught the Alpine Butterfly - it is rarely used,  but it is the knot used to isolate a bad spot in a rigged line.  The data shows it retains 80+% of the strength of the line.  It can also be used create a loop in the middle of a rigged line.  It is relatively easy untie after it has been loaded.  Comes in handy when you are halfway down a rock face and you get to a bad spot in the rope you are ascending on.

I would consider adding a balanced anchor knot - specifically a double figure eight - if anchoring a rope for climbing or double staking guide lines.  

Knots are a perishable skill if not practiced.  Always tie them the same way, dress them down neatly, and snug them tight.  Knots are not part of the modern skill set for most people.



Edited by Stev - 20 Jan. 2022 at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 12:48pm
Other than tying my shoes I use a bowline more than anything, but a sheet bend is probably my number 2 knot, and one I think everyone should know.  A trucker's hitch and a taut line hitch round out most of my knot tying.  I guess I do use a clove hitch occasionally.

But back to tying shoes, knowing how to tie a square knot rather than a "granny knot" sure makes it easier to keep your shoes tied!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2022 at 1:59pm
I learned most of the knots I use from my grandfather, learned a lot more in the BSA, and many others from the years I spent sailing. 

I only know one "kid" who knows how to tie proper knots. He has made a hobby out of rope, does beautiful work with a marlin spike, and can properly make every seafaring knot I ever heard of, but he is in his mid forties, so only a "kid" from the perspective of someone my age or older.

Most kids nowadays don't know any of these skills, nor much of anything else that doesn't have to do with some electronic gadget. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2022 at 9:27pm
I learned most of my knots in Boy Scouts too, but it was as an adult leader.  And at least half the boys in our troop had a good grasp of knots!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 2022 at 7:57pm
1) Alpine butterfly knot for adding a loop mid-line that you can put a carabiner or whatever on, load and still untie later 2) The double sheet bend for joining two ropes together.  3) Round turn and two half hitches, easy to learn and strong, to attach line to a ring, pipe or whatever.

Also, did you know that three wraps around any normally barked tree about 12" in diameter or greater will be enough friction to load the line into the 1000's of lbs without slippage? More wraps for security, or smooth bark, or smaller diameter. 
The great thing about this method for anchoring a line is it can be unwrapped/removed while under load. We used it for swiftwater rescue and I still use it in my arborcare business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BD1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 2022 at 8:51pm
I actually know a fair amount about wraps on a tree. For years, before an intervention at FERC relicensing in the mid 80's,  all of the commercial whitewater outfitters on the West Branch of the Penobscot in Maine lowered their 8 or 10 man rafts over an 80' cliff into Rip Gorge using 1" rope because the paper company would not allow us to use the road access to the power plant on the other side of the river.  This could be 80 rafts a day on summer weekends. For the first few years one wrap would allow anyone to maintain control, as the grooves wore in it took two wraps. After a few years the tree died, and ten years later it was a 12" diameter stick about ten feet tall that looked like it it had been threaded in a mill and it took three wraps for the smaller guides to maintain control.  
Using 1/2" semi-dynamic line, one wrap on a tree with bark and a bight on my waist, was, (I haven't had to do this for over 30 years now) generally enough for me to hold the line on anything long enough to get it tied off. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 2022 at 10:15pm
I grew up in D-F btw and know Moosehead well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BD1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 2022 at 10:31pm
Where in CO? We looked at moving out there after my daughter graduated college and was living in Silverthorne. Luckily she's moved back to Maine. I say luckily as I think I could sell everything I own in Maine and still not be able to afford a mobile home on a rented lot in Summit county.  I have a brother in Co Springs, and I get out to CO elk hunting most years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2022 at 12:14am
I am in Longmont. Real estate here has exploded. My home was 160k in 2004 when I got it and is now at 527k and still climbing. Crazy.
I guided wilderness rivers out west for awhile. Colorado, Green, Arkansas, Gunnison, Rio Grande etc.

Built an E.M.White guide canoe while still in Maine but got stupid and sold it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m38mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan. 2022 at 12:39pm
I teach camp crews how to set up tents and tarps for wildfire camps.  I rely on 3 knots; Bowline, double half hitch, and square knot.  We use those knots for anchoring tents and tarps so they don't blow away, and so they stay set up in heavy rains.  Most of the kids (18-25) and about half the adults (25+) on the camp crews know nothing about knots.  I give them all a short length of rope to practice with, teach them the knots, then quiz them daily until I feel like they know how to tie each knot correctly.  They take pride in learning the skill, and using it to set up camp facilities.  I got my knowledge started in Boy Scouts, and developed further in the Army Engineers.  For those who show an interest I teach them several other knots that I've found useful in the past, or entertaining.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan. 2022 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by m38mike m38mike wrote:

. . .  I rely on 3 knots; Bowline, double half hitch, and square knot.  . . .  I got my knowledge started in Boy Scouts,  . . .

That's the only three I can remember . . . also learned in Boy Scouts. Smile    

I use the square and half-hitch a lot,  the bowline less.   I have seen quicker ways to tie it,   but the only way I can remember is "rabbit out of hole,  around tree, and back down hole".  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan. 2022 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by JeepFever JeepFever wrote:


I use the square and half-hitch a lot, 

Those two get me through most of my life's struggles.

"right over left, left over right" Wink


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