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Knuckle stud upgrade

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jeeper50 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Jan. 2020 at 5:25pm
With Stan's recent knuckle stud problem I began researching info about this upgrade to our steering knuckles. I found some info over on the ECJ5 forum.  It replaces the studs with 3/8-24 button head cap screws to keep the studs from pulling the threads out of the knuckle. No pics but good info none the less. Requires you to clearance the new button head bolts for gouging the sealing surface of the knuckle, as if they never leak Ouch

'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2020 at 6:05pm
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Edited by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A - 21 Jan. 2020 at 8:07pm
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 44bz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2020 at 8:13pm
I did this upgrade on my J2000 and am about to do it on the 2a since I'm upgrading to discs.  Just ordered those studs actually.
46 CJ2a - Buick 198, T90/D18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2020 at 8:23pm
Keep in mind there are no Grade 8 button head bolts in US threads Least not that months of searching on my part could turn up. To get real strong Button Head Bolts for my Roll Bar mounting plates I had to bite the bullet and go with Grade 10.9 Metric. I used 8mm to replace the 3/8" bolts I wanted to use. Luckily I found this out before drilling holes so I could have them match the Bolt Diameter. 


Std Grade 5 Hex Head bolt              120,000 psi tensile strenght
Std. Grade 8 Hex Head bolt             150,000    "       "              "
High strength Socket Head bolt     170,000    "       "              "
Std Button Head Bolt  Alloy             120,000    "       "              "
18-8 Button Head Bolt Stainless       70,000     "       "              "     HALF AS STRONG AS GRADE 8   
316  Button Head Bolt Stainless       70,000     "       "              "     HALF AS STRONG AS GRADE 8 

Grade 10.9    Hex Head bolt             150,000        "       "              "

Just some food for thought


Edited by Mark W. - 20 Jan. 2020 at 8:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64CJ5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2020 at 8:44pm
I got my info on this up grade from the Jeep CJ rebuilder's Manual 1946-1971 By Moses Ludel.  I did the up grade on my 1964 CJ5 with the model 27 axle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2020 at 10:51pm
Just ordered a piloted counter bore and button head bolts from McMaster to try this on a spare set of knuckles. Should have everything on Wednesday. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2020 at 12:51am
I did this to Ol' Unreliable about 15 years ago.  I made a mistake in not grinding clearance for the button heads when the knuckles go to turning limit.  I just adjusted the steering stops but now I have a much larger turning radius than I would prefer.  I can still get kuh-nuckle kuh-nock (with Rzeppa joints), so maybe I need to adjust the stops out more.
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2020 at 8:32am
Originally posted by unclemoak unclemoak wrote:

Just ordered a piloted counter bore and button head bolts from McMaster to try this on a spare set of knuckles. Should have everything on Wednesday. 

Post pics of tooling and your progress on those knuckles 
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2020 at 9:05am
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

Originally posted by unclemoak unclemoak wrote:

Just ordered a piloted counter bore and button head bolts from McMaster to try this on a spare set of knuckles. Should have everything on Wednesday. 

Post pics of tooling and your progress on those knuckles 

Will do. I was planning to do a small write up and video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spinnas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2020 at 9:20am
Interested to see this. I have contemplated going to “D44” knurled spindle studs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheelie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2020 at 6:27pm
I have s few pictures of mine somewhere. I'll try to find and post them.




Edited by wheelie - 21 Jan. 2020 at 6:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 2020 at 10:26am
Here's mine I did a couple years back along with the double knuckle modification.
Casting cuts very easy so I just  milled the flat area by hand on a drill press.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 2020 at 11:20am
Great pics, what is the P/N for those bolts spot facer if you still have them.
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan. 2020 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

Great pics, what is the P/N for those bolts spot facer if you still have them.

Here are the numbers from McMaster 
 

3102A25 - High-Speed Steel Changeable-Pilot Counterbore, 21/32" Body Diameter with 4 Flutes

3103A3 - Steel Pilot for Changeable-Pilot Counterbores, 3/16" Shank Diameter with 3/8" Pilot Head

91255A647 - Button Head Hex Drive Screw, Black-Oxide Alloy Steel, 3/8"-24 Thread, 1-1/4" Long, packs of 25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeorgiaFlattie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 2020 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by unclemoak unclemoak wrote:

Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

Great pics, what is the P/N for those bolts spot facer if you still have them.

Here are the numbers from McMaster 
 

3102A25 - High-Speed Steel Changeable-Pilot Counterbore, 21/32" Body Diameter with 4 Flutes

3103A3 - Steel Pilot for Changeable-Pilot Counterbores, 3/16" Shank Diameter with 3/8" Pilot Head

91255A647 - Button Head Hex Drive Screw, Black-Oxide Alloy Steel, 3/8"-24 Thread, 1-1/4" Long, packs of 25

Thanks for sharing those part numbers. That's valuable tech.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2020 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by GeorgiaFlattie GeorgiaFlattie wrote:

Originally posted by unclemoak unclemoak wrote:

Originally posted by jeeper50 jeeper50 wrote:

Great pics, what is the P/N for those bolts spot facer if you still have them.

Here are the numbers from McMaster 
 

3102A25 - High-Speed Steel Changeable-Pilot Counterbore, 21/32" Body Diameter with 4 Flutes

3103A3 - Steel Pilot for Changeable-Pilot Counterbores, 3/16" Shank Diameter with 3/8" Pilot Head

91255A647 - Button Head Hex Drive Screw, Black-Oxide Alloy Steel, 3/8"-24 Thread, 1-1/4" Long, packs of 25

Thanks for sharing those part numbers. That's valuable tech.


My mistake, you actually need the 5/16 pilot. The 3/8 is too big (I wasn't thinking about the major vs minor diameter of the threads)


3103A29Steel Pilot for Changeable-Pilot Counterbores, 3/16" Shank Diameter with 5/16" Pilot Head
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unclemoak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb. 2020 at 5:49pm
Here's a video I did on how to do this upgrade.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fltfndr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2020 at 12:36pm
Anybody know if these same mods to the knuckle are necessary with a spicer axle?
 
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