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Kubota swap- help push me over center

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Aggiecubpilot View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Mar. 2016 at 8:46pm
Long time lurker and I've admired all the kubota conversions thus far- so much so that I bought the adapters from Overland Diesel. I've delayed in getting started on my project for various reasons, chiefly trying to figure oh what exactly my first steps will be and what my options are to completely them.

That said here's where I stand and where I think I need to go particularly with a diesel conversion in mind, given my jeep is a "survivor" in mostly in rebuilt condition. My objective is to get it mostly up and running, then work on small stuff while driveable.

Rebuilt transmission and t-case given mine currently leak like sieves
Disk brakes on all four corners
New clutch pack
V2203 swap.

Can anyone give me some guidance as to what order I might do these things and what else should I look at with respect to the diesel swap?

Thanks for the input! Hopefully I'll have my own swap thread forthcoming!
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Lemield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2016 at 11:26pm
Hi Aggiecubpilot,
 
The V2203 swap is pretty straightforward. If you PM me your email address, I will send you my itemized parts list for my swap. I love my Kubota swap!
 
I think you should rebuild the trans and transfer case when you are doing the swap so then you can install the whole thing at once....but there are a LOT of really smart Jeep guys on this board that might have different advice. We have all done our swaps a little differently from each other in certain respects.
 
Kind regards,
 
Larry
Larry

1949 CJ2A "Little Stinky Green" Kubota Diesel Powered
1970 Chevy C20 454 "Big Red"
1971 Chevy K20 6.2 Diesel "Pumpkin Wagon"
2001 Mercedes CLK320
2003 Cadillac Seville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 12:08am
Couple suggestions

You will likely have the engine in and out several times in order to get the firewall clearanced and the engine mounts in place on the frame.  For convenience, I would do all of this with just the engine and leave the Trans and Tcase in place as reference points.

I would acquire the engine and get the adapter, M38 bell housing, correct exhaust manifold, oil pan and engine mounts installed on to the kubota engine.  Then I would pull the current engine and do a rough fit of the kubota.  This will allow you to get the firewall clearanced and then temporarily bolt up the engine to transmission in order to mark the location of the engine mounts that need to be welded to the frame.  Then you can pull everything out including the Trans and TC.

After you get the TC and transmission rebuilt you can choose to put everything together and drop it in as a unit if you like.  It makes for a very heavy assembly, which is why I suggest doing the initial fit as above.  Should only have to man handle the whole assembly once then.

Couple more suggestions...

Be very careful drilling the dip stick tubes through the engine.  There is an oil gallery near the location you need to drill.  I think I found photos over on dieselbombers that show details (maybe from "redveloce"?)

I would dial indicate the bell housing alignment before final assembly.  Mine was off 20 thousands, and I had to clearance the alignment bolt holes and use shims to get alignment correct.  Not sure if the adapter place was off, or the bell housing was off.  This will help insure that the transmission bearings and clutch are all happy.

4 wheel discs seem like a little overkill for a relatively stock CJ2a.  Have you ruled out 11" drums?  Its a pretty easy conversion.

I assume you will be swapping the brake master cyl?  A dual master is really nice for safety.  I'd do that after you get the engine mounts welded to the frame, but before you install the engine.  Way more room to work in there then, but you will know where you can route brake lines if you need to re-route.

I would also run fuel lines before you install the engine/trans/tcase.  Most people run them to the right hand side of the engine to get closer to the injection pump.  You also need to route a return line from the right rear of the head area back to the top of the fuel tank.  Again, way more room to work with all that stuff out of the way.  I routed mine up and over the T-case, pretty tight to the trans tunnel.  You might lay out a route before you pull the trans and tcase so you know where there is clearance.

Well, that's a mind dump, but hopefully gives you some things to ponder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 12:53pm
Well, you only live once, and if you like diesels, then go for it. Sounds like you already have since you bought the kit. I aggree, build the transmission/transfercase and source a overdrive. It's quite a bit of work to get the engine all converted and cleaned up from surplus condition. Drilling under the injector pump for the dip stick will need a extendable bit holder. Take your time with that and be careful. The tube drives in pretty hard, so make sure you enlarge it a bit over the 29/64's. I also recommend fitting the input shaft of your transmission to the flywheel sealed bearing "BEFORE" you put it in the transmission. That takes some time with emory cloth. Took me 2.5 hours. You don't want that job laying on your side. Buy a set of oil pan bolts and o ring for the oil pickup tube. The originals are too long for the replacement pan. I also requested a fan and solinoid shut off with my engine and got them free. They usually don't send them. I'm very impressed with Kubota's quality.  Mine is going into a '49 Willys pickup that had the L 134 originally, so the grill/radiator stays un harmed. Motor mounts on the frame have to go. Too far forward and in the way.  Verdict is still out on the firewall until I hang it in there. Can't wait, but it's all the bodywork that has me pained. Worth it in the end. John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 2:51pm
Just a side note to add to what Peter and John have said.....
 
I bought my engine from Enginemon. Johnny drilled out my block for me before he shipped me the engine....just another option. :)
 
 
Larry

1949 CJ2A "Little Stinky Green" Kubota Diesel Powered
1970 Chevy C20 454 "Big Red"
1971 Chevy K20 6.2 Diesel "Pumpkin Wagon"
2001 Mercedes CLK320
2003 Cadillac Seville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 3:55pm
Forgot about the overdrive discussion, Oilleakers post reminded me.

If you stay with the stock drivetrain, I highly suggest an overdrive.  You will be limited to about 40mph, maybe 45 if you run the engine flat out at 3000RPM without one.  The engine has no injection pump advance, so the efficiency and EGT suffer greatly at max RPM (you'll still get double the fuel economy).  The biggest drawback of the Kubota is the limited RPM range.  It won't idle as low as the stock engine, and it wont run quite as fast.  The overdrive allows you to run 55mph comfortably.

I went with a T90C gear set and a 30% overdrive.  This gives a lower 1st and 2nd gear.   The 30% OD works best with the T90C to give even gear splits.  In other words, 2nd OD is about half way between 2nd DIR and 3rd DIR for example.  If you stick with T90A gears, the 25% is best for even gear splits.

The OD is not without faults in terms of strength and reliability, but its the best option with a T90.  I think the ideal set up would be a 4 spd with a 4.27 or 4.10 gear ratio and no OD, but then you are ripping the entire drive train out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel_Buck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 5:10pm
the RPM limitation is definitely a limitation.  However, when I had my flat head motor, I don't ever recal really driving faster than 3,000 RPM anyway, it always sounded like it was going to grenade when the RPMs get high.

What are your intentions for the jeep?  Do you intend to drive it on highways often? 

If you have the time and the gumption, I would look into moving the driveline forward a little bit, maybe 1-2 inches or so.  That will give you a bit more room between the motor and the firwall, and also probably make more room for the throttle linkage, depending on how you are setting that up.   I moved mine forward when I put the T98 in there.

I'd also look into a dual master cylinder for the brakes, if you don't have one already.

I had a Saturn overdrive when I was running the T90 transmission, but it didn't survive.  The planetary gears stripped, so I decided to not use overdrive.  I have 4.10 gears in my axles now, and 33" tires.  It drives very nicely.  I don't use 1st gear on the street unless I'm taking off from a steep hill, and it cruises 55-60mph just fine.   I think at about 60mph I'm around 2,500 RPM, so there's still RPM left to pass someone, or to speed up if needed.  I just got back from a 2,000 mile trip to Utah and back, cruising 55mph almost the entire time, the jeep did really well!  And got better than 30mpg average.

factory 5.38 gears and no overdrive, you won't be fast enough to drive on modern road speeds, it really depends on how fast you want to drive.  If 45mph is as fast as you want to go, you don't need to change the gears or put an overdrive in there.  If you want to do 55 or faster, you'll need to do one of the two.  Using my own jeep as my only basis for comparison, I would suggest finding newer axles with 4.10 gears (or whatever ratio you need) or re-gearing the axles.  My overdrive didn't survive, I don't know if that's typical, or if the newer Saturn units are just junk.  I really don't know for sure.  

I would still like to have an overdrive unit, not so that I can go faster, but so that I can split gears.  Driving the T98 like a 3 speed, there's often times where splitting a gear would be nice.

Good luck with the swap!  It'll be worth it, trust me!  It's definitely put new life into my old flatty.


Edited by Daniel_Buck - 31 Mar. 2016 at 5:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 5:18pm
Wow, you drove it out.  That is cool!  I've been having fine luck with my OD.  Shifts smoothly etc, but it has popped out of gear once or twice when in reverse and putting some torque to it.  This, plus all the issues others have been having with Herms OD's make me a little nervous.  I think your's might have been some special case, but I agree, the OD is not ideal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel_Buck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 5:21pm
I edited my post with a bit more information!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 5:44pm
You guys and your high boosted turbos! TongueLOLLOLLOL
 
I have an old Warn overdrive in my Jeep and it works great. I love it. I'm running 5:38's and 16 inch MDT tires and it seems to cruise very well at 55.
 
Maybe the fact that I can't seem to get more than 8lbs of boost is a good thing...Wink
 
Larry

1949 CJ2A "Little Stinky Green" Kubota Diesel Powered
1970 Chevy C20 454 "Big Red"
1971 Chevy K20 6.2 Diesel "Pumpkin Wagon"
2001 Mercedes CLK320
2003 Cadillac Seville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 7:10pm
I've lowered mine back down to about 13 PSI Smile.  I get a few excursions up to 15 psi sometimes, which maxes my gauge out.  

Yeah, I think a good OD would work for a long time and just need a standard overhaul once in a while.  I'm hoping mine is good to go, Its getting closer to 2000 miles since it was installed.  I've driven it 200 miles at 55 with no problem what so ever.  With the Kubota, I wouldn't hesitate to drive it several hundred miles.  It is awesome for splitting gears offroad.  I know many have run V6 or V8 power in the past, just have to be gentle.  I think those that have had issues must just have had some un-know tolerance a little out of wack.  Its not a precision fit between the OD and the TC, no dowel pins, and some (including myself) have had to shim to get the barrel gear located correctly.

Anyone ever driven an old International tractor with a T/A.  The OD kind reminds me of that.  Need to slow down a little, pull it back.  Ready to speed up a little, pop it forward. Smile

At any rate, overall, the Kubota power and reliability turn it in to something that you can realistically drive several hundred miles on modern roads with little worry.  With the old engine, I'd be watching gauges for overheating or oil pressure, worrying if I shut it down that it might vapor lock etc etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2016 at 8:01pm
I think I read that the Warn overdrive is good to 300 foot pounds of torque. I think the Kubota is around 180, so we should be fine. The idea of driving my Jeep to the location and dropping back out of overdrive to go trail driving is pretty cool. This Kubota thing is catching on. Don't try and take on Lee from MN. though, he has the larger 85 HP Kubota. Shocked I'm skeered!!!!! Oilly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aggiecubpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr. 2016 at 8:59pm
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate the suggestions. One of the things I am also thinking about is Saginaw steering. Does the Kubota create any problems with that modification?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel_Buck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr. 2016 at 10:01pm
The kubota itself doesn't present any steering issues, but I would probably figure out what you want to do for the steering before you start.  That would have made my entire build up a bit smoother, if I had planned on doing the steering, rather than waiting and doing it later.

For general driving around town and such, even with 33" tires I'm fine with manual steering.  Offroad, power would definitely be nice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liqueur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2019 at 1:45am
Hay Can I Please Get That List Of Parts for the Swap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobevans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2019 at 2:53am
Try contacting Larry ("Lemield"). It's his list and you should check out his build thread.
'48 CJ2A

'56 DJ3A

'79 CJ7

And two of them actually run!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liqueur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug. 2019 at 3:09am
I Did I Pm him just Waiting for him to get back to me just wondering if anyone already hade it
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Welcome to the page, Liqueur!
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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