L134 or Pinto |
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Teds Ride
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 28 Feb. 2019 Location: Merlin, Oregon Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Posted: 16 Oct. 2019 at 9:09pm |
I need an engine for my 1950 CJ. Should I drop in a L134 with a 4 speed pickup trans. (will this trans match up to my transfer case? Should I drop in a Ford Pinto engine with a Novak adapter? Real problem deciding. Any advice will be helpful.
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67charger
Member Joined: 27 Sep. 2011 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Ford is a four letter word sooooo.....haha just kidding. I cant help you with the four speed, but what is your intent on the jeep? Wheeling, cruising, keeping up with modern traffic. Also budget and parts you have. A 134 with a 3 spd can do a lot except "no overdrive" keep up easily with modern traffic.
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Teds Ride
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 28 Feb. 2019 Location: Merlin, Oregon Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Thanks for your input. I will need to decide.
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9652 |
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. If you know me at all, you won’t need to ask. The L134 and the T90 are more fun than you can imagine. Any swap is only the beginning of your troubles. Someone at cruise night might look at the Pinto engine and say, “nice” and walk away, but the stock jeep will get no end of good comments and thumbs up. JMO. Your jeep, do what you want. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7986 |
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Keep in mind the pinto engine in stock form has no more bhp then the 134L does.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Teds Ride
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 28 Feb. 2019 Location: Merlin, Oregon Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Good comments guys. So far I have lined up a L134 and a F134.
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rocnroll
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13609 |
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Edited by rocnroll - 17 Oct. 2019 at 4:41am |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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rocnroll
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13609 |
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Ted's Ride, here is some good reading on the subject. (containing some helpful links)
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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IMHO the Pinto engine RPM ranging is too high for slow speed crawling.
If I'm not mistaken ...the Pinto engine puts out it's max torque at like 3200 RPM.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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64CJ5
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 15 Nov. 2013 Location: NE Wyoming Status: Offline Points: 946 |
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I went with a 2300 cc pinto. Previous owners had cut out the Jeep motor mounts and hacked the fire wall to get a 350 in. Hood had a 12" hole in it, transmission had to be rebuilt. It came to me with out the 350. The pinto gets down the highway nicely and has power off road. If I must replace it some time I may go in with the L head. As I now have a L head block of unknown condition to work with. Fewer Pinto engines to pick from now. Novak is the one to go to for expert help. I agree with Bruce the L head sounds right.
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64CJ5 "Eeyore"
01TJ "Tigger" 52 M38 Severely demilitarized, "Popeye" The Coast Guard Jeep. 14 JK "Jake" To Trust Government Defys Both History and Reason. PUBLIC LAND Owner/User |
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Teds Ride
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 28 Feb. 2019 Location: Merlin, Oregon Status: Offline Points: 59 |
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Thank you. Nice to get experienced comments. All of you guys and comments are great. Keep on keeping.
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rocnroll
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Tuscumbia, AL Status: Offline Points: 13609 |
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I went a slightly different route with the one I built years ago.
Instead of the T-90 I elected to adapt the Pinto C3 (which is essentially a C4 adapter wise) to the Dana 18. I loved mine, wish I had it back and will probably build a clone if anything happens to this l-head. It certainly got down the trail just fine without having to rev to its "max torque of 3200rpm".... but different strokes for different folks.....I won't try to talk Old-time or Anybody else into building one , just saying with the automatic and 5.38s it is an enjoyable trail rig. Mine ( and the one I have in storage ) was a '71 2000.....they were rated close to 100hp. Yes, the earlier versions are getting harder to come by....a bunch got used up on roundtracks around the country. One combined with one of those super duper low geared transfer cases everybody seems to be clammering about these days would be a very offroadable rig and still run 60 mph. |
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'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty "Common sense is not that common" |
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timcj2a
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: Chula Vista, CA. Status: Offline Points: 801 |
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I put a 2000cc Pinto motor with Novak adapter in my first '47. i had all the other original running gear, but added a Warn overdrive. The combo I had never let me down on flat land, but sometimes when I got into a steep extended climb it would flood on me occasionally. That made for some real hair raising (back when I had some) adventures.
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Hopefully m38mike will join in on this conversation since Blue Mule has had a pinto motor most of its life and Mike has years of experience both on and off road. He drove Blue Mule back and forth from Salida for work and the drive home is a significant upward long pitch going home.
From what I understand (no personal experience). People like the pinto motor because it produces more torque at higher RPM where it is needed, on the highway. Off-road, you can get your power from your gears. I don’t know the specs on the motor but I would guess that even though it may not produce “max “ torque at low rpm, it is still producing as much or more than an L134. (no data to back that up) If the choice were mine, and I was content to cruise 40-45 on road, I’d use the L134 out of bias and convenience. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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Well Yes and No.
I was only making comments from my limited Pinto engine experience and data. It,s certainly feasible that some Pinto engines put out max torque at a lower RPM than 3200. And that does not really tell us how much torque is actually being produced at various RPM's without a dyno chart. YES the added HP increase is always useful when on road YES if you dramatically increase the Jeeps overall gear span then crawling at higher RPM's may certainly be a good thing. But if you want to crawl at the common Willys standard of 37/1 crawl ratio then NO, because 3200 RPM would be much too fast if anything near full torque output is needed. Basically what I'm saying is that when the Engine RPM Span increases then ideally your selectable gearing ratios should increase proportionately.
Edited by oldtime - 18 Oct. 2019 at 1:16am |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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tamnalan
Member Joined: 08 Oct. 2013 Location: Port Orford, OR Status: Offline Points: 991 |
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If I had a good Pinto motor then I would be very tempted to use it, but I wouldn't try to find one.
There are better choices now like the 4.3 Vortec or a turbocharged Kubota diesel. I personally am a fan of Ford's ecoboost motors. I think a 2 liter version would be a great jeep engine.
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Alan Johnson
1942 MB - "TBD" 1943 MB - "Lt Bob" 1950 cj3a M-100 x2 teardrop camper: https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=201740 |
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Jw60
Member Joined: 17 Jan. 2018 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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The ford rangers used a fuel injected 2300 and 2500 derived from the pinto for a long while into the 2000s. They are pretty good in stock form and I considered one in my CJ5 but after reviewing costs the 4.3 was ahead mostly because I wanted something to pull a trailer on the local highway and plow snow in the winter. Once you get into adding more than stock power in the Ford it gets pretty silly dollars per hp and the valve train can't take much additional spring rate without cam bearing issues.
That all said if I built a little flatty for the wife i would try to find the a c4 and Ford 2.3 then keep the overall weight and tire size down. The rangers I test drove had more high rpm than the Chevy s10 iron duke or tech4. But not the torque of a 4.3 It's really boils down to driving style. Around town stick with the 134. Highway speeds would call for the engine swap and the Ford seems to create a smaller snowball than other swaps.
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Ol' Unreliable
Member Joined: 25 Sep. 2016 Location: CO Springs CO Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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If you don't get a Go-Devil, get a Buick V-6. Or a Dauntless V-6. Okay, they're almost the same thing. They're excellent choices for the application.
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There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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