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Lockers |
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kilroy26 
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Joined: 08 Jan. 2021 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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 Topic: LockersPosted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 1:55am |
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I recently picked up a 2a that I intend to use mostly as a trail rig and just local trips around town. It still has the original Dana 25 front and Dana 41 rear with 5.38 gears. Are there any good sources for lockers for these axles and is there anything I need to know before ordering them aside from axle spline count? Thanks in advance
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47 CJ2a
225 V6 4 speed Dana 18 with husky overdrive unit |
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73 cj5
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 2:19am |
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Trail use only? Personally I'd weld the rear. I suppose you could weld the front too but I'd splurge for a lunchbox locker.
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CJ3B
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kilroy26
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 3:48am |
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I thought about welding the rear but I dont know how much I'd like that running in around town. I figured at least with a locker it would have a little bit of give to it as opposed to welded together.
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47 CJ2a
225 V6 4 speed Dana 18 with husky overdrive unit |
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73 cj5
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 8:00am |
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If money isn't an issue I'd say go for the lock right's front and rear. That will give you good drivability on the street and off road. Personally I don't have an issue with a spool or welded spider gears. |
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CJ3B
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bight
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 7:46pm |
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i have read a ton on this site and some others (including youtube) regarding front/rear lockers and continue to seek knowledge. there is lots of opinions and variables that make this a complex decision making process. though the objectives of jpet, metcalf, smfulle, Nothing Special, and others vary, their insights have helped me to better understand what might meet my own objectives. and, quite frankly, better inform me to alter my objectives. unfortunately, the focus is typically on differentials that are not on my CJ-2A. but, their info based upon real experience (and without BS argument) is incredible for someone that wants to learn honest, factual info. i kinda wish all of the diff discussions could be located in one place, but certainly this would be a challenge and a book in itself.
i have the same situation, stock Spicer/Dana 25 front and Spicer/Dana 41 rear. 6.00-16LT NDTs. this seems to leave few choices for lockers. i do not want to weld what i have into a spool or put in a spool. i kinda sorta want a little better off road capability on moderate terrain. no utah rock crawling. mostly woods, off-road snow, some mud, some rocks, some tree roots. will not be daily driving on snow covered roads or highways. further info is really desired! to include opinion on good sources of where to purchase. thanks kilroy26 for starting this thread.
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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3-48s
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 10:11pm |
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You say "Personally I'd weld the rear." That is what is called an "Adirondack Posi" by the local BB4WD crowd. They weld the spider gears together & now they have true 4WD. Not great if you ever do intend on going on pavement. I would go with some quality differential lockers instead. Bob W might be able to steer you in the right direction. He is an experienced off road guy. |
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1945 CJ2A #10536
1948 CJ2A #176528 "Elmer" 1948 CJ2A #155970 "Gray Mule" 1948 CJ2A #155365 "Old Yeller" (GONE) BANTAM T3C # 6147 (GONE) BANTAM T3C # 30856 |
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Nothing Special
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 10:33pm |
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I'm no expert on CJ2as but as I understand, the options for the rear Dana 41 are PowrLok (clutch-type limited slip) and Lock Right ("lunch box locker" automatic locker) while the front Dana 25 I think is limited to the Lock Right.
Lock Rights in both axles will give the best off-road performance and not terrible on-road manners. (Personally I wouldn't use an automatic locker in the front axle of a vehicle that will get driven in 4WD on snowy freeways, but that's usually not an issue on a CJ2a.) A PowrLok in the rear and a Lock Right in the front will give pretty close to the same performance off-road with better road manners. Some people would even prefer this setup off-road. One thing to keep in mind is that open differentials limit the torque load that the axle shafts can see. A limited slip and especially a locker will make it easier to break axle shafts. Most of us that rock crawl figure it's still worth it, but those of us that can will often upgrade to stranger axle shafts. I don't know that there are many options for 41 and 25 axles. And while I don't think I'd ever go with a "Lincoln Locker" (welded diff), they aren't as terrible on the road as you might think. It's usually pretty easy to slip the inside back tire so a welded rear can still be driven on the street. And if you have locking front hubs you can take the front diff out of the equation on the road. But it can be VERY hard to steer with a welded front axle, even in the dirt, and even in 2WD if you don't (or can't) unlock your hubs. And again, welded diffs will be harder on axle shafts
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3A Steve
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 10:42pm |
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One thing to remember is that locked front axles are very hard to meet tight steering requirements. If you are in a group of flat fenders you may have to back up (once or twice) to make the sharp turns it can become aggravating. If you have any reason to have work done on your transfer case you need to have the interlock pill removed so you can use 2wd low range for those times you can't (or don't want to) make multiple back up and turns to get around the bend. I think driving Black Bear would be a nightmare with lockers and the interlock pill not removed.
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oldtime
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Posted: 10 Jan. 2021 at 11:54pm |
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No the DS Powr Lok is not an option for a D41.
Powr Loks were not even available for civilian use before 1957.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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3A Steve
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 12:59am |
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The front lockers, not the rear.
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73 cj5
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 1:29am |
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I've driven plenty with lunchbox lockers in the front and rear of a zuk with 35's (DD) and a welded diff in the rear of a dodge truck (DD) and I can say I don't have anything negative to say about either. My current jeep has a spool in the rear and spartan locker in the front. I don't have much off road time with it yet but so far so good.
Spool vs lockers is more of an opinionated argument. I agree there are some downfalls but to me the benefits outweigh them.
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CJ3B
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Nothing Special
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Joined: 02 Feb. 2018 Location: Roseville, MN Status: Offline Points: 843 |
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 1:37am |
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Like I said, I'm no expert on CJ2as! Isn't there a clutch-type limited slip available for the Dana 41? I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using them. I was remembering that it was the Powr Lok, but apparently I'm wrong about that.
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3A Steve
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 2:01am |
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I believe Stan has a lock-right in his D41.
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oldtime
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 2:04am |
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No problem,
The Thornton Powr Lok was originally developed by Dana Spicer in the mid 1950’s for use in the M38A1. I am not aware of any limited slips to fit a D41.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Nothing Special
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 2:47am |
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That's what I remember as well. Also in his front axle.
I don't have much experience with an automatic locker in the front. But what I hear and what little I have experienced says that an automatic locker (like the Lock Right) doesn't hurt turning radius very much. The locker will freely disengage, allowing the outside tire to over-run, so it won't be locked in most corners. What does happen though is that since you're only driving the inside tires you get pretty noticeable torque steer when you are on the power. There's some of that with an automatic locker in the rear, but a LOT with an automatic locker in the front. And the more you are on the power the harder it will try to straighten out. This will increase the turning radius, but if you're not on the power it will be negligible. Where it could be huge is if you are on the power hard and there's poor traction. But in typical use it's not that bad. And the tight turns on Black Bear are going downhill, so you wouldn't be on the power that much.
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Metcalf
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 3:49am |
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Current options..... D25 front: open, slightly modded D27 Power-lok, lock-rite, welded D41 rear: open, lock-rite, welded Some other interesting things There was also the Vernco locker for the D41 back in the day. It was a one (?) off creation that allowed the axle shaft to slide across the side gears to make a selectable locker. You can swap D44 19 spline side gears ( including a D44 lunchbox locker ) into a D41 carrier along with D44 19-spline axles. This is a decent upgrade from 10-spline stuff. There are a few more 19 spline D44 lunchbox locker options these days. I'm sure I am forgetting some stuff.... |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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Nothing Special
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 1:43pm |
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With no rear limited slip available I'll mention two other possible combinations.
A Lock Right in the rear and leaving the front diff open is a common way to go. Most of my 'wheeling has been like that. It's pretty effective off-road and I find it very tolerable on road. It also puts the locker in what's probably your strongest axle, so probably less likely to break an axle than option 2... A Lock Right in the front and leave the rear open. In most cases this will probably be better off road than just the rear locked (there's always debate on that though). And it will definitely have better manners on road. But it does put the locker in the axle that's probably most likely to break. Personally I think I would find the off-road manners of a front Lock Right worse than the on-road manners of a rear Lock Right, but either are certainly tolerable, and probably well worth it if you value the off-road performance.
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Oldpappy
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Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 2:45pm |
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"I'm no expert on CJ2as but as I understand, the options for the rear Dana 41 are PowrLok (clutch-type limited slip) and Lock Right ("lunch box locker" automatic locker) while the front Dana 25 I think is limited to the Lock Right." The ring gears are different sizes between the Dana 41 and 44, but I believe the PowrLock or a lunch box locker for a 44 will fit a 41, but I am certainly no expert on this, so may be completely wrong. There are plenty of folks in this discussion more knowledgeable than I. I saw that QTM recently had some NOS Marine surplus limited slip units for the front axles for $200. I believe these will fit in the Dana 25, again subject to the experts knowledge, as I have never installed either. I won't be doing any rock crawling, and we don't get enough snow down here to worry about driving on snow covered roads. For my use, mostly on dirt or tar and gravel roads with occasional stream crossings, I like the limited slip units, but I don't know about the use of them on slick roads.
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73 cj5 wrote: