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Looking For 4.3L Engine Swap Guru

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APOS View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Apr. 2021 at 5:31pm
Full disclosure before you waste your time, this is not for the purists.

Backstory:

I have been on the hunt for a 2A that I can take on extended trips to remote locations where I rock hound, metal detect and so on. Many have asked why I don't just go with a newer platform, well, I like the history, smaller size, and overall look of the Willys.

I was originally looking for something ready to hop in and go, but that just wasn't turning up any results. I was contacted by a gentleman locally who happened to have a very solid CJ2A sitting in a barn. So, I bought it.

From what I can tell, and was told, it has had an F134 swap, a new radiator, disc brakes in the front, a new fuel tank, new springs, rancho shocks, tires, and several other things still in the packaging (new glass, body mounts, yada yada). It was a project that was never completed and has sat for several years.

What I Am Looking For:

I need this thing to get me there and back reliably, wherever and however far that may be. It will primarily see washed out, rocky, dirt roads, ravines, shallow water crossings - and at times, a fair share of pavement to get to some of these locations. I am not trying to build an extreme rock crawler, but more of an overlander. I would like all systems gone through, from front to back.

From what I have researched, a fuel-injected 4.3L is the way to go: reliable, parts are everywhere, and enough power to get me around without breaking things. Plus Novak and several other companies have most of the required parts to do the swap.

Now, I probably have all the tools to do it, just not the knowledge or experience mechanically. I'm a body & paint guy 🤷‍♂️. And as much as I'd like to try and get it done all by myself, I would rather drive it this summer versus years from now.

I am located near Bend, Oregon, but also willing to trailer it to you.

I can pay in cash, beer, tacos, the use of my new CNC table, the running F134 that's currently in it, body/paint work, or a combination of the above. I am willing to help turn wrenches and soak up knowledge.

Thanks for your time! You can reply here or PM me.







Edited by APOS - 22 Apr. 2021 at 5:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2021 at 12:50am
Congrats!

You've got a lefty...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jw60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2021 at 3:23am
Originally posted by APOS APOS wrote:


Now, I probably have all the tools to do it, just not the knowledge or experience mechanically. I'm a body & paint guy 🤷‍♂️. And as much as I'd like to try and get it done all by myself, I would rather drive it this summer versus years from now.

I am located near Bend, Oregon, but also willing to trailer it to you.

I can pay in cash, beer, tacos, the use of my new CNC table, the running F134 that's currently in it, body/paint work, or a combination of the above. I am willing to help turn wrenches and soak up knowledge

You can farm out a lot of your components with herm or similar. Axles Transmission etc. 

Go for a 1990 tbi 4.3l +or- about 2years you can send the computer to places like affordable fuel injection to get it thinking for the manual Transmission. 

why not order the big components out then do it yourself and know what you have and how to fix it later? Summer is right around the corner and a lot of this is weld free. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2021 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by 48cj2a 48cj2a wrote:

Congrats!

You've got a lefty...

Thanks! I had no idea, that is a neat tidbit of information!


Originally posted by Jw60 Jw60 wrote:

You can farm out a lot of your components with herm or similar. Axles Transmission etc. 

Go for a 1990 tbi 4.3l +or- about 2years you can send the computer to places like affordable fuel injection to get it thinking for the manual Transmission. 

why not order the big components out then do it yourself and know what you have and how to fix it later? Summer is right around the corner and a lot of this is weld free.

I have read the TBI is the way to go.

I literally have no idea on what to do, where to start, or what to look for. I feel like it would be a smarter move to pay someone who does this all the time, versus me throwing money at things I have no idea about. And then comes the time frame of how long it's going to take me to put everything together to hope that I did it correctly. Don't get me wrong, I would love to do it myself, but I'd also like to use it this summer.


Edited by APOS - 23 Apr. 2021 at 9:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2021 at 10:15pm
There are many good reasons why Willys owners do their own work as much as is possible.
A serviceable and dependable Jeep just does not happen overnight.
Money is best spent finding a Jeep that has the most potential to meet your exacting need.
But you already have a start so in that case....
I highly suggest you get what you already have operating and running as best as you can.
If the F head runs then leave it in for the time being.
A good running Hurricane will be up to hard service at least for a time.
As you drive and experience the Jeep you will much better know and understand exactly what needs to be done to make it fully serviceable to your needs.
There are others on this forum who have specific needs identical to yours.
Spend your time asking questions and doing research.
Then when time permits install your upgrades.

You will be hard pressed to find a really good Willys mechanic that has time for additional projects.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr. 2021 at 10:33am
I am with Oldtime here. Make what you have run safely. Pay particular attention to the steering & brakes. Then drive it at least through this summer. This option will require much less time, hassle & money than retrofitting a Chevy engine into the CJ-2a.

That F-134 might just work out fine for you. The L & F head 134s are reliable for most anything these Willys are used for. The exceptions come when you use them for things they were not designed for such as extreme rock crawling, or flying down the freeway. Heck if you want the latter, you will need at least an overdrive. Higher geared differentials might be required for extended freeway speeds. Mine goes down the freeway just fine on my trailer.

IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr. 2021 at 12:52pm
Yeah, the L and F heads are certainly not the ideal engine for many of today’s uses but these are extremely durable and reliable engines within reasonable rpm limits.
I would never expect to see an over landing Jeep to endure more rock crawling than Stan’s famous “grampas” Jeep. 
His engine seems to be holding up and I sure would not mind hearing his comments on that.

Myself I have easily put over 80k on a single Hurricane, frequently running at speeds of 60 to 65. With overdrive of course.
And have even run an L head without an overdrive from Death Valley to St. Louis with zero water in the radiator. 
Let’s see you do that one with a modern engine  ! 
So yes these engines can be EXCEPTIONAL dependable.



Edited by oldtime - 24 Apr. 2021 at 12:56pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr. 2021 at 9:26pm
I understand the thought process. However my main concern is reliability when it truly counts and parts availability. I have no doubt that they're tough old engines. And I am not against the idea entirely. I did just find a company who makes a fuel injection unit for the F134, but there isn't much information beyond that - I simply don't want to deal with a carb.

And unfortunately where I go, trailering is not an option or practical.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 3:53am
So the Fuel Injection, (FI), is a personal preference. If I were worried about a carburetor, I would send mine to ScoutPilor owner of Oldjeepcarbs.com, & have him rebuild it. He also often has one in stock to trade out if you are in a hurry. Ask him about that.

He will repair/replace all the worn parts. Then after he reassembles it, he runs it on his Willys & adjust it to run well on his engine. That way it is mostly a plug & play operation after he is done. It might need a little adjustment, but no more than a FI system will need. After that, like a FI system, drive it. Oh, he also coats them to your specs so they look pretty. The ones I have seen that he has done look & act like brand new ones. Yet, if you just gotta have FI, go for it!

Getting a carburetor from Scoutpilot will probably be cheaper & it will be easier then a FI system. If you do not like it, you can resell it on here. His reputation is very good.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 11:57am
I’m all for you putting in a 4.3 GM v6 if that’s what you need and they have a great reputation for use in cj’s.
Yet to install one satisfactorily takes a lot of know how and TIME.
If you wanna get this Jeep serviceable ASAP then your far better off to maintain the standard configuration for now.
Otherwise an engine change alone is far too likely to overpower other components and effectively create a non dependable Jeep.
The standard and factory optional jeeps were designed as a complete and synchronous system.
Without experience of the complete standard synchronous system you cannot know if a modification is an improvement or not.
Once you begin mix matching non standard and other non optional parts and assemblies into this system, you then begin to have strong and weak links in your mechanical system.
But then again your system has already been modified via the Hurricane.
IMHO the T90 by itself is an exceptional transmission but it is not optimally synchronous for use with a 4.3.
IMHO one should not begin to modify the mechanical systems until they have thoroughly considered how to recreate a modified yet synchronous  system.
Like they say a single modification can easily become a slippery slope.
You do not want to install the 4.3 direct to your T90 only to find out that it was poorly positioned for other future upgrades.
Besides the 4.3 will need to be properly positioned and that alone will reposition the transmission and transfer case.
So now your already into sheet metal changes too.
And you want this all done yesterday ?


Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 4:27pm
 The 4.3 and T90 have been a proven system for years and years. It can absolutely can handle the 4.3 from everything I have seen. My uncle ran this exact setup for probably a decade. And probably a thousand other people.

I appreciate your opinions on it, but I am also not looking to debate where we will most likely never see eye to eye. Do I want this done yesterday? Absolutely, because I want to drive it! I have quotes from 3 shops who can get it in and done by June. But I also like to give the enthusiasts a shot at my money first, sometimes people like to make a quick buck to support their own projects.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 4:43pm
I’m just saying the 4.3 can break the T90 not saying it will break the T90.
 I just happen to think there are better transmissions for that engine so one might as well do it all at once.
You seem confident as to what you are after and that is certainly a good thing. Many guys are just unsure what they are getting into.
So hope it works out well for you. 


Edited by oldtime - 25 Apr. 2021 at 4:44pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 6:25pm
Gotcha, understandable. I have seen many people go the SM420/65 route. I guess we will see where this goes. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr. 2021 at 7:34pm
I just got mine on the road.  2002 4.3L with a new intake and TBI.  I'm happy to weigh in on things that I would have done differently or less expensive.  This was my first engine swap and quite frankly, it wasn't that hard if you have committed yourself to welding, sheet metal work, getting a transmission converted to fit, etc, etc.  It wasn't always easy, but it wasn't extremely complicated.  Get ready to purge some cash.

Otherwise, just drive the heck out of the engine you have now.  It will be at least a year of work before you ever drive it again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jw60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2021 at 12:58am
 i've been plesently surprised with my t-90 and what abuse it has taken.
The 4.3 really isn't any stronger than a 225 or 226 it's just cheap and natively fuel injected. The buick 225 has more rotating mass so in a sense a 4.3 has less potential for breaking stuff. 

On my CJ5 I swapped f134 for the v6 in about a month. Any Transmission will have to get parts swapped either mainshaft or input shaft. If you are going to rebuild something you might as well go to a fully synchronized Transmission and have a greater usable spread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APOS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2021 at 4:43am
Pope, congrats on your completion. If I decide to take it on myself, I'm sure I will have some questions. At this point, I'm holding out a bit longer to see if I can find someone to do it. Trust me, I have cash burning a hole in my pocket...

Good Stuff Jw. Thanks for the info - Depending on how this goes, I may just go for it all at once.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BAD ROD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov. 2021 at 8:59am
Any update?  Curious how this turned out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windyhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov. 2021 at 10:42am
Sure the little t90 can hold up but it's a peanut next to a 4 speed. Old man at Novak years ago told me just because you can doesn't mean you should.  He said if your doing the swap anyway do it right and put a 4 speed behind it that will never give you any issues strength wise.  It was great advice and I've been running a t-18 behind my 225 in the 3B for over 20 years without a single issue.  I've thanked him in my mind many times over for the great advice.  

Edited by windyhill - 04 Nov. 2021 at 10:43am
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