Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Modifications from original
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Lower Transfer Case Gears
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Lower Transfer Case Gears

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 18>
Author
Message
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Lower Transfer Case Gears
    Posted: 13 July 2020 at 11:09pm
Hi all,

I feel like this project is far enough along that It’s worth posting on. The is a project that Bob W and I are working on along with some contributions from Joe Friday, Metcalf, and pts211



This is a 19 tooth pinion to 49 tooth intermediate gear. The Helical teeth are 8DP 20 deg pressure angle and 20 deg helix like the originals The low range spur gear is 21 tooth 7DP which is the same as a stock 1-1/8” shaft Dana 18 case. This way we can use the original 39 tooth slide gear which is one less gear to make. The low range is 4.79:1. Yes the gears come through the case:



First to be able to see some geometry and the case cutout, both Metcalf and pts211 3D printed me some gears:







Now to cut the case:





This is a d20 case. The gear is 6.4” diameter and the teeth are about flush with the outside of the case.   Obviously, the cutout will have to be covered with a plate but there is plenty of clearance for a bolt.



Since there is more clearance than I expected, I think I will experiment with a 3mm tooth gear set instead of 8 DP. A 3mm 53 tooth intermediate gear would be 6.5” in diameter. If I go with a 3mm tooth, I can do a 19/53 tooth helical gear combo which will make low range 5.18:1 In series with a T90-C and 5.38 pumpkins, the FDR would be 93:1

93:1
52:1 (Stan gear)
28:1
18:1
10:1
5.38:1

.... those are real good splits IMO.

... more ...

Edited by jpet - 13 July 2020 at 11:20pm
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2020 at 11:19pm
.... anywho, our shop is not setup to cut gears. I’ve sent these prints out to several gear shops. Either they won’t touch it because it’s automotive, or they want a minimum order of like 100 sets. Eventually, I found a guy in Indianapolis who will cut the teeth for me if I do all the rest of the work.   We are not setup to do internal splines either and I hate to spend a bunch of money farming them out when I’m still in R&D so I made a bushing that has a 60 deg key so that I can index it to make splines. :



... the splines are 11/32” wide but all we have is a 5/16” broach so I made the slot in the bushing wider so that I can put shims on the sides and run the broach thru twice:







These splines are flat on the outside edge but They are still tangent with the 1-3/8” shaft diameter so I’m satisfied that they are good enough for R&D. That was the one thing I wasn’t sure how to do. I also have to make the dog clutch for the slide gear. I plan to interpolate that in the CNC mill. We don’t have a shaper so we shall see. That’s it for now.
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2020 at 11:34pm
Here is another possible concept of an original intermediate gear machined to use a 49 tooth ring gear:



Metals:

I have not made hardened gears before. After lots of reading, I decided to get some 8620:



What I had read was that after you cut the teeth, you have this metal carburized and then heat treat the teeth about .03 deep. After talking to the heat treat guy, he is telling me to go with 4140 which doesn’t need carburizing .... IDK. I sent him some original gears to test them for hardness and make a recommendation. More on that as I get info.
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
Lee MN View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 Aug. 2008
Location: Harris, MN
Status: Offline
Points: 4059
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 12:34am
Very interesting! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

Lee
               LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys
49 2A
67 M715
American Made Rolling History
Back to Top
jeepsterjim View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 13 July 2011
Location: lincoln, ca
Status: Offline
Points: 1012
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 1:10am
WOW great stuff!

This would not work with a 29 tooth geared set up? nor a x-fer with a OD?    

glad to see you guys working on ways to lower the gears in the x-fer case.  
Jim
CJ-2A - 81299
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 1:25am
Originally posted by jeepsterjim jeepsterjim wrote:

WOW great stuff!

This would not work with a 29 tooth geared set up? nor a x-fer with a OD? ...

Yes, it would work with 29 or 26 tooth setup because you are replacing those with the 19 tooth gear anyway.

No overdrive though. The 19 tooth is just too small.
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
hotrod59 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 Dec. 2017
Location: Boise, ID
Status: Offline
Points: 101
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hotrod59 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 1:31pm
Wow this is amazing! I will be following this. Great work guys!
1948 Luzon red CJ2A No name yet
1952 CJ3A 225/T18 "SPUDZ"
Back to Top
otto View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 Feb. 2012
Location: Orygun
Status: Offline
Points: 1399
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 3:20pm
This is fascinating, very innovative method of creating the internal splines. I have been to the Warn facility where they were making parts and they had broaches that were about six feet tall and pushed them through all in one pass. Always wondered how splines were made; interesting process. 
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon
Forgive me if I don't return the "jeep wave", I need both hands on the wheel!
Back to Top
Joe DeYoung View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: Madison WI
Status: Offline
Points: 3108
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 3:27pm
I'm thinking you would get much less material growth and distortion after heat treat using 8620 carburized for a .030 case vs the 4140 hardened all the way through.
Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife.





Back to Top
Metcalf View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 21 May 2009
Location: Durango, Co
Status: Offline
Points: 702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 3:35pm
Happy to help Jeff. Keep up the good work.


42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.



Back to Top
Joe Friday View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 26 Dec. 2010
Location: Jeep Central
Status: Offline
Points: 3000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 4:17pm
Jeff,

wetransfer was acting up when I tried to send you files.

If you are missing any dimensions please let me know and I will email individual files.
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 4:51pm
Hi Keith,

I’m looking for the dimensions on the dog clutch and also what material the gears were made from. I talked to the gear guy today and he strongly recommends the 8620. He makes gears for competition tractor pulls so that’s good enough for me.
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 4:53pm
I’m also curious what the engineer called out for the spline width. The originals I’ve measured are about .345 wide. I assume they had to do the same heat treat compensation that I am.
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
Metcalf View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 21 May 2009
Location: Durango, Co
Status: Offline
Points: 702
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Hi Keith,

I’m looking for the dimensions on the dog clutch and also what material the gears were made from. I talked to the gear guy today and he strongly recommends the 8620. He makes gears for competition tractor pulls so that’s good enough for me.


Has 9310 type material come up at all in discussions? Seems to be really common for high end gear manufacturing. The heat treat can tune the durability vs longevity over a broad range.


42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.



Back to Top
Bob W View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member x 4

Joined: 08 Aug. 2005
Location: Monticello, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1549
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 5:58pm
The dog clutch is on the A-15044 or 809291 gear output shaft.

Here are part numbers for all the gears in question for both 1-1/8" and 1-1/4" intermediate shaft gear sets.
A-10469 or 809297 gear mainshaft (input)
642189 or 809293 gear intermediate
A-15044 or 809291 gear output shaft
A-15045 or 809290 gear sliding
Back to Top
Joe Friday View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 26 Dec. 2010
Location: Jeep Central
Status: Offline
Points: 3000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 6:31pm
I texted you A-992

Was it 807892 you were looking for?
Back to Top
jpet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 5

Joined: 30 Apr. 2008
Location: Ramsey, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 10661
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2020 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Metcalf Metcalf wrote:

...Has 9310 type material come up at all in discussions?...
No, the gear cutter recommended 8620 and the heat treat guy recommended 4140 only because it does not have to be carburized but it can still be case hardened. I'll do some research. Thx.

Originally posted by Joe Friday Joe Friday wrote:

I texted you A-992

Was it 807892 you were looking for?
Thanks! Looks like they were made of 8620 heat treated .035-.05 deep.

... another compelling reason to make them from that material along with the fact that I've already spent 600 bucks on material
http://www.classicjeeptops.com
CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM"
MB #295645
MB #434416

My Videos
Back to Top
chasendeer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Feb. 2012
Location: Napa,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 978
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chasendeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2020 at 1:22am
Jeff and all involved,
Thanks for taking on this project, in a much needed group of parts for this hobby. 
Jay
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 18>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.