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metal_miner Kubota swap

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Lemield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr. 2015 at 4:02pm
Wow...things look like they are going well. Glad my itemized list helped!
 
Your welded up table looks awesome!
 
With the adapter plate in your driveline, you might not need to clearance the firewall at all for the Kubota. I had to modify mine...if you don't have to , that's even better! :)
 
Looking good!
 
 
Larry

1949 CJ2A "Little Stinky Green" Kubota Diesel Powered
1970 Chevy C20 454 "Big Red"
1971 Chevy K20 6.2 Diesel "Pumpkin Wagon"
2001 Mercedes CLK320
2003 Cadillac Seville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr. 2015 at 12:12am
I decided to start burning some vacation time (use it or lose it) so I took this week off and devote time every day to working on my swap.

After my last post I got really overwhelmed with what was ahead of me so I took a breather and reviewed many people's builds on here and Pirate. I work with a guy that builds custom rods as well as land speed motorcycles so I asked him to come over. He really helped me out in terms of prioritizing my build as well as gave me a pointers on what he would do for body work.

So today I got the motor, battery tray,and saginaw mounts off the frame rails as well as cleaned up these area with a flap disc and grinder:



Between a cut off disk and plasma cutter I got the saginaw steering box mount off:



I noticed I went a bit overboard with the plasma cutter on the front frame rails.

Inside:



Outside:



The inside rails were boxed in on top off the original M38 frame boxing when I converted to saginaw steering. Should I just dress the gouges and holes followed by filling with weld and grinding down?

I also measured the distance between outside frame rails at the frame horns. Factory spec is 29 1/4" outside-to-outside. At the frame horns I'm at 28 3/4". I'm not sure which frame horn (s) is bent in. Is it OK to take a high lift jack to spread the horns apart? I eventually want to weld on a rectangular tube bumper / crossmember here too.

M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2015 at 6:43am
The goal today was to tack in the engine mounts. That didn't happen.

First, I spent a few hours trying to mate the engine to the bell housing. While doing this, I caught myself almost boogering the bellhousing threads in the aluminum adapter plate. The motor mounts as shipped from Overland Diesel barely fit between the frame rails so it doesn't allow for a lot of engine maneuvering. Why didn't I use the Kubota lift hooks and remove the engine mounts? Well I tried that first and the engine kept on twisting and the rigging on the rear hook tended to snag on the firewall hood lip. Out came the engine. I got the Portaband out and I trimmed the mounts about 1/2":



Second, the 3/8-16 bolts that came with the kit were too short so I had to scrounge through my collection of fasteners. I then slung the engine back in and soon found that a couple of the bellhousing bolt holes were just shy of 3/8". Out came the engine again. I checked all the other bell housing bolt holes and they were all a hair over 25/64" so I clearanced the smaller holes to this. At this point I ran a tap through the adapter plate bellhousing bolt holes to make sure there was no machining residue and to dress any damaged threads.

I slung the engine in again.  The engine at this point is located at the same bellhousing location as the stock L134 engine. You can see here that it is up right against the firewall with a soapstone outline of the interference:



I set the radiator and installed the Kubota engine fan to see how much clearance I had. From the radiator fins to fan was about 3 5/8" and from the tip of the fan to the radiator shroud was 2". 





The Kubota fan is 15" - the same diameter as the L134 fan - so it should fit inside the radiator shroud. This means I could bring the engine up shy of 2".

Moving the engine forward will be tricky. The radiator core is about 12 3/4" in its smallest dimension. The core frame is 7/8" from the radiator fins leaving at most 2 5/8" clearance to move the engine forward.

Now, my dilemma: mechanical fan or electric fan?

Greg at Overland Diesel recommended this electric fan: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16514/overview/ It's 14" diameter and 3 1/4" thick. I don't think it will fit my radiator core frame. This Flex-a-Lite might fit as it's smaller diameter and less thick at 2 5/8", but moves almost the same air: https://www.flex-a-lite.com/electric-fans/12-volt-electric-fans/universal/12-inch-lo-profile-s-blade-electric-fan.html

Tomorrow, I'm going to see if I can make the mechanical fan work first as it should allow me the most forward movement. Any forward engine movement can only help my rear driveshaft out:


M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2015 at 2:43pm
You might try Googling  Cooling Components Inc.

They offer fan/fanshroud combinations. I used one on my project.

A 12 3/4" core is a very small radiator.....I'm somewhat concerned about cooling ability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr. 2015 at 7:30pm
Do you have room to mount an electric fan in front of the radiator? 
'47 CJ2A -- #114542
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr. 2015 at 2:27am
Originally posted by rocnroll rocnroll wrote:

You might try Googling  Cooling Components Inc.

They offer fan/fanshroud combinations. I used one on my project.

A 12 3/4" core is a very small radiator.....I'm somewhat concerned about cooling ability.


Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out.

I measured the core again as the shroud was in the way before and it's 13" T x 19" W x 2" deep.

Aluminum ones on EBAY are listed at 13 3/4" x 19 1/2" x 2" - slightly bigger. I think everyone else doing this swap is keeping the stock sized radiator, but I don't see how the 14" electric fan frame will fit. Hmmm...
M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr. 2015 at 2:29am
Originally posted by Mike S Mike S wrote:

Do you have room to mount an electric fan in front of the radiator? 


Yes, but I have no winch yet and perhaps that spot might be reserved for a small intercooler. My goal right now is to fit a puller fan.
M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr. 2015 at 3:41pm
The Flexalite 394 I used fits in the shroud really nicely. Here is a picture. :)
Larry

1949 CJ2A "Little Stinky Green" Kubota Diesel Powered
1970 Chevy C20 454 "Big Red"
1971 Chevy K20 6.2 Diesel "Pumpkin Wagon"
2001 Mercedes CLK320
2003 Cadillac Seville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr. 2015 at 8:34pm
Thank you for posting your electric fan picture. It gave me validation about clearances required. Most of the slim 14" electric fans are publicized at 3.25" to 3.75" rounded up depth. As such, I wanted to target minimum 4" clearance from the water pump pulley bolt heads to radiator fins.

Since the oil filter is above the front axle housing, the other critical clearance is the front axle housing to the bump stop. On my jeep this is 3.75". The front axle should swing forward during compression and the axle housing is tapered so I wanted to target 4" static clearance from the bottom of the oil filter centerline to the axle housing.

Trying to achieve these measurements unfortunately made me realize that my firewall needed to be clearanced so out came everything:



In a previous post in this thread I mentioned my "jeep lean" so I took this opportunity to again take measurements to the floor. The measurements are in the order of: complete drivetrain / engine out / body only

Engine pan to ground: 13.5" / /
Passenger Side rear: 20.125" / 20.125" / 20.5"
Driver Side rear: 19.375" / 19.75" / 20.375"
Passenger Side front: 19.5" / 20.44" / 20.75"
Driver Side front: 19" / 20.125" / <= 20.75"

With no offset weight on the springs anymore the front and rear leaned <=1/16" and 1/8" to the driver side, respectively. I didn't jostle the suspension before these measurements to perhaps loosen up the springs a bit so these measurements could have just been measurement noise.

For reference points to establish the height and centerline of the mounts I used the garage floor and centerline of the rear rivet head on the front shock mounts. After clearancing the firewall I swung the drivetrain in and set the radiator. After quadruple-checking all measurements, I tacked and finish welded the mounts:





With the drivetrain out and completely accessible it was time to install the clutch and reinstall the transmission and transfer case. Using cribbing and an engine hoist sure beats lying underneath the jeep and wrestling with a hard to balance transmission / transfer case combination!

I had to order some longer bolts to finish installing the transmission to adapter plate since the supplied bolts with lock washers only engaged about half the adapter plate threads. Every place in town had bolts either too short or too long. 

Once the drivetrain is installed next weekend, my next project is to redo the floors and firewall to establish a good working platform for the steering and hanging pedals.


M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel_Buck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2015 at 6:31pm
Nice build!  I missed this thread somehow!  :-D

What are you going to do for the steering?


For cutting bolts down, I find that bandsaw setup you have works really well.  Just thread a nut on both sides of the blade, and that keeps the bolt nice and perpendicular to the blade, I've never boogered one up yet :)  


Edited by Daniel_Buck - 27 Apr. 2015 at 6:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjensen641 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2015 at 8:57pm
What do you guys think about using a remote oil filter on these things?  The idea is to get the filter away from the axle housing and up out of harms way.  Might make a skid plate easier to design too.

I'm not sure this is the right filter thread, but this is the sort of thing I am talking about.

One of us should start a collective "Kubota swap" idea/knowledge thread!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lemield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2015 at 9:44pm
I am running the larger filter on my Kubota and it has what I consider to be quite a lot of clearance....with a shorter filter there would be even more....I don't consider it a problem on my Jeep.
 
I think there was some discussion on it in my build thread.
:)
Larry

1949 CJ2A "Little Stinky Green" Kubota Diesel Powered
1970 Chevy C20 454 "Big Red"
1971 Chevy K20 6.2 Diesel "Pumpkin Wagon"
2001 Mercedes CLK320
2003 Cadillac Seville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thefixer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr. 2015 at 4:56am
I left mine in the stock position ( parallel with the crank), I didn't remove the 90 degree adapter. I liked the filter tucked up next to the engine. I had to redesign the motor mounts.How do I post pictures here?

Edited by thefixer - 28 Apr. 2015 at 1:37pm
41 MB Slat Grill, 44 GPW, 46 2A, 48 2A, 51 M38, 54 3B Kubota diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thefixer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2015 at 2:18pm
Anybody? I'm really computer handicapped!! A little help with the pics here? Confused
41 MB Slat Grill, 44 GPW, 46 2A, 48 2A, 51 M38, 54 3B Kubota diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2015 at 3:22pm
It took me a while to figure it out for this site as it's different than other sites, but this is what I did:

1) I have my pictures on photobucket so I opened a photobucket window with my library.
2) pulled up my picture
3) in a separate window I have the cJ2a page open and click on "post reply"
4) at the top of the post reply window are a row of icons.  The 7th from the left is for inserting images.
5) click on this icon. a pop up window called "image properties" opens
6) in the "image URL" box clear out the text that's in there and then copy the direct picture link in photobucket to the "image URL" box.
7) click "ok" and picture should show up in your reply

I haven't tried loading pictures directly off my computer yet though.
M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2015 at 4:39am
A stray followed me home:



After starting on body work a few weeks ago and a week with no progress I realized I would still be working on the body years from now. I did not want to live in this eternal hell so I then decided to buy a new repro MD Juan M38 body. I ordered from CSE Offroad before they were due to raise prices by about 15% like other places already did and took advantage of free freight. It came well crated using angle iron bolted together and thin plywood with every loose part secured with twine and wrapped with bubble wrap. Conveniently, it had a little frame with a step to support the tub properly so I set that on a furniture dolly to move everything around easily.

More pics of body kit:





I also ordered 4 Superlift 1" rear springs to use on all 4 corners. Doing this will allow me to move my front axle forward an inch or so. I also intend to move the rear axle back one inch. I have an electric fan coming so once that gets here coupled with a new body I can really see where my engine sits and maybe move it forward to gain even more rear driveshaft length. Unfortunately, that might mean redoing my engine side mounts. We'll see...

I am also going to box in more of the frame as well as rebuild the front frame horns and rear crossmember. This weekend I started making boxing plates as well as weld-in captive nuts for my spring hangers, transmission crossmember, and frame tie down brackets. I used 1 1/4" x 3/8" thick flat bar for the nuts. Youtube is great for tips and tricks - I found a clip to use a hand drill and tap to quickly tap thin materials.  32 holes @ 3/8 x 16 took about 15 minutes to tap with oil! For the spring hanger nuts I drilled two sets of holes 1" apart so I can move the rear axle back to stock if I wanted.



The round steel plugs and washers in the picture will be used to fill in various holes in the frame.

I also weighed my OEM springs and compared to the Superlifts:

Rear OEM total = 70 lbs versus Superlift rear total = 44 lbs
Front OEM total = 54 lbs total versus Superlift front total = 44 lbs

I also sold my old engine with only 2,000 miles on it to a coworker. He had just bought two flatfenders that needed engines.



M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metal_miner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2015 at 7:03pm
Old jeep frames suck.

Old jeep frames are not for novice welders and fabricators like me to be working on.

Angry

Nuke

M38. SM465, 3.6 D18, Saturn OD. Soon to be Kubota V2203.

Other toy: 2003 Dodge Cummins with a few mods to 725 HP/1260 TQ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metcalf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2015 at 5:39pm
I'll respond to your frame questions over here that you sent me via pirate. I don't get over here very much, but I need a good excuse...

On my frame design I stretched the wheelbase a bit to make a 35" tire fit better. The front axle is approx 3" forward and the rear axle is approx 2" back. It would be easy enough to just modify the location of the spring hangers on the side plates to stick the axles where ever you wanted. I have done about a dozen different versions of the side plates for people now.

The frame is very easy to build in the original design because the frame rails are symmetric end to end. The only real difference is the bumpers. The front of the frame is longer than stock however for the wheelbase stretch.

My frame design was also not 'stock' as far as lift. I am running 1" rear spring but, according to other stock frame flat fenders I have measured, the suspension is about the same as 'stock' height and perhaps even lowered. The 1" superlift rear springs also measure about 2" of lift over stock springs. Some of this can be adjusted with shackle length and position. You could also run taller springs if you wanted.

The body is very tight on the rear floor step right now. You might be able to shift the body back slightly....but in general I would keep the rail position the same. Unless you want to cut the body for the frame rails it is kinda hard to make the bumper stick out more. You could make the bumper deeper....like using 4x4 tubing. That won't help with the rear shackles. If you used 3" tall box tubing for the rear bumper you might be able to move the shackle under the bumper without changing things too much.

You also need to think about the front frame horn length vs wheelbase. If you moved the front axle back towards stock you could shorten the front of the frame some. I would keep things similar on overhang relative to axle position though for steering box clearance.

My body is hard mounted to the frame. No isolation.

If I was going to build another one.....

I would think about using 5" tall material in the belly section of the frame. This would give just a little more space for the transfer case and exhaust.

I would probably custom make the body tub...or at least most of it. I would shorten the vertical height of the rear panel so I would not have to lower the rear bumper. This would make the frame even more symmetrical front to back. That would allow me to have a more conventional shackle on the rear suspension.

I would french the steering box into the front bumper to make room for a longer pitman arm. What I have now is VERY tight for steering linkage space.

I hope that answers you questions.

 
42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.



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