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My first post and intro.
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CJ2A-NOOB View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Oct. 2018
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Points: 66 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ2A-NOOB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 8:04am
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

"Has ANYONE here,
 EVER SEEN or HEARD of,
         a 1947 Willy's CJ2A being a POSITIVE Grounded vehicle ?"  

Yeah. Several times. But it was not intended or originally built that way. Six-volt Fords and some others were positive ground, and some folks seem to think that anything 6-volt should be positive ground, because that's what they've seen before. So when they get ahold of an old jeep or Chevy or Plymouth or whatever with no battery in it, that's the way they hook it up.

  There are people in other areas of the old-car world, such as the Model-A guys and tractor guys, that think like many here do, that they HAVE to have an alternator, the generator just won't do, but they want to stay "as original as possible" and keep the 6-volt system. The 6-volt positive-ground alternator is made for them.   BW

now this right here makes a LOT of sense,
 and I'd be willing to bet you are Spot-On with this explanation / hypothesis .

Tomorrow, I'll be heading over to the local auto electric guy.
 Great guy and as "Old School" as they come.
 He even has a '57 2 door Bowtie with factory fuelie V8 (matching numbers), and an old authentic  "Bathtub"speedster  Porsche, (not a fiberglass replica), and 2 immaculate original Whizzers in the back of his shop.

I think I'll just forget the idea of testing and deciding if this present 6v alternator is good or bad.
 I think I'll just trade it in for a regular 12v, negative ground, single wire, alternator, with built in regulator, and call it a done deal.

Hmmm, ... Bummer on the temp sensor.
 I figured that would be a pretty common and readily available replacement part.
Cheers
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mbullism View Drop Down
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Points: 4783 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by CJ2A-NOOB CJ2A-NOOB wrote:

Originally posted by mbullism mbullism wrote:

come for the info, stay for the pie Thumbs Up

 Hahahaha, I Love it !
  In my other "hobby", (Errr,.. Translation,... OBSESSION !)
 We say,
"Come to the Darkside,... We have Cookies". LOLWinkBig smile

No dark side here... and on what planet are cookies better than pie? Wink

I gotta tell ya, I've been following along letting the smart people talk, thinking just 12v one wire it and lets go LOL.  Neither way is factory, and if it's going to be wrong it should be wrong correctly Wink

As far as the temp sender, the sender itself is attached to a sealed tubing with argon or freon or some damn thing that escapes when the tubing is broken or cut.  It's a sealed system up to and including the gage itself, so it has to be replaced as a unit... or fixed at significant expense Ouch


Edited by mbullism - 18 Oct. 2018 at 12:06pm
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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[QUOTE I think I'll just trade it in for a regular 12v, negative ground, single wire, alternator, with built in regulator, and call it a done deal.[/QUOTE]
The problem with that is everything seems to be 6v now, you will need to change all the bulbs, solenoid, coil, fuel gauge and maybe amp gauge depending how you wire it. A simple way to fix it now may be to see if your auto electric guy has a neg ground regulator to go in that alternator. Doing that you will have a regular one wire alt , neg ground, with internal regulator, but 6v.
1946 cj2a #28680
1948 chevy 3800 thriftmaster
1946-50's cj2a-3a farm jeep
1993 yj, aka the yj7
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Originally posted by 48willys 48willys wrote:

A simple way to fix it now may be to see if your auto electric guy has a neg ground regulator to go in that alternator. Doing that you will have a regular one wire alt , neg ground, with internal regulator, but 6v.



I like this line of reasoning....it would get it working again with a minimum of mods AND get you back to the less confusing negative ground that most of us are used to.
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'48 CJ2A Lefty

"Common sense is not that common"
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When you reverse the polarity on an alternator, the diodes inside usually are ruined. Never heard of a positive ground Willys.
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quick update
I just dropped off the alternator at the rebuilder.
He immediately took it apart to look inside and confirmed it was on fact set up as a 6v pos ground.
He is going to switch it to a 12v neg ground and it should be back in my hands this afternoon.
Cheers
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Ok so if he is switching it to 12volts instead of just building it back to 6volt neg ground remember that means all your other stuff will have to be changed out......bulbs, solenoid, etc.

I thought you were thinking about getting him to do a 6 volt negative ground....(instead of positive ground)

I'm not an alternator rebuilder so don't know what is involved with either.
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'48 CJ2A Lefty

"Common sense is not that common"
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Points: 9651 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct. 2018 at 5:01am
"Hmmm, ... Bummer on the temp sensor.
 I figured that would be a pretty common and readily available replacement part."

  Common, yes, they get broken a lot, mostly by people who don't realize how it works or comes apart.
  Readily available, not too bad, all the parts vendors carry them. You just have to replace the entire gauge. You can be glad that our gauges are very similar to what has been used in military vehicles, tractors, heavy equipment, hot rods and racecars, etc, etc. for many years. Imagine breaking one off in a Studebaker or DeSoto, or any other old car or truck where the gauge head is peculiar to that particular instrument cluster!  BW
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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Thanks for all the replies everyone,
OK, I got the alternator back from the shop this evening. It is now rebuilt to a 12v, neg grd, high output, self exciting, self regulating, single hot wire, ... Thing of Beauty ! ! ! Wink  Big smile

We're not real concerned with keeping it as "original as possible" or anything like that.
 Heck, ... it already a civilian CJ2A that is impersonating as a military MB, LOL !
 Converting it to a 12v system was part of the original plan anyway.

 My buddy intends to use this jeep as a camping/hunting rig 
. He's not the gear head that I am, and his words were basically,...

 "Just make it as 100% dependable as possible, Ron, ... I don't want it breaking down out on a hunt, or ten miles down some dirt road away from camp ".

 We are talking about replacing the wiring harness, to get rid of he old cloth(?) insulated wires, and provide a greater sense of confidence that we will not have any problems with it. It's going to need 12v Headlights, Tail/Brake lights, and a turn signal kit.
 He'll probably want some off-road lights front and rear, and probably an interior light, electric widsheild wipers, and it wouldn't surprise me if a electric winch gets tossed in along the way.

  We already have one of the "Arctic" aftermarket hardtops for it too. Not sure who originally made/sold it (?).
 It is aluminum construction, solid locking doors, sliding door windows, and fully insulated. I'm sure he'll want some lights in/on/around that too. 
 So ,... it's not like the electrical system is going to be "all stock" anyway.

I'm considering replacing the headlights with some fancy LED or HID types widely available on Amazon/Ebay... so those wont be looking "original" either.
 (If anyone here has them on their CJ2A, I'd love to see a pic of them)

I found these Halogen bulb types on Amazon, that even have turn signal built in.
 Now that is pretty convenient ehh ?
https://www.amazon.com/Crystal-Halogen-Headlight-Headlights-Included/dp/B077YW3WS9/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1539930079&sr=8-5&keywords=round+headlights&dpID=51PHB1gCcYL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


So first I've got to get this electrical modification done to accept all that stuff... and then I've got to give the drive train some attention. It's got the usual oil leaks at both diff covers/yoke seals, and one at the transfer case. it's got a TINY bit of play in the steering box, that I can probably adjust a tad. Will need to look at the brakes just for my own satisfaction, as well as the spring shackle bushings and ball joints. 

Did I forget to mention the WiFi, Disco ball, FLIR, Satellite TV, and Dancing Laser lights, Dash Cam, Remote Engine start, Backup monitor,  and B-17 Motorized Machine gun turret, all to be controlled by your Smartphone or keyfob ? LOL  Wink  Big smile










Edited by CJ2A-NOOB - 19 Oct. 2018 at 7:54am
Cheers
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ok, so here's my next dumb question,

Am I correct in thinking the starter relay shown in these pics, should be replaced with a 12 volt version ?




How long do you guess the starter will hold up being 6v,  with a 12v electrical system ?

(We used to do that when I was a kid, when we would convert our pre '67 VW's to 12v)

Are 12v Starter Motors readily available ? Cost ?
 Or can this 6v Starter Motor, be converted to 12v by my Alternator/Starter Guru Guy ?
 How do you guys (who have gone to 12v systems), handle the Starter Motor ?
Cheers
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Being an old VW guy, I will say that the Willys is very similar in this regard. Unless you grind away on the starter it should hold up OK. Although some folks have had Bendix problems, I have not, so far anyway. Many folks just swap out the starters, & some of us continue to use the 6 volt original one.

It sounds to me kind of like your buddy will not go easy on his starter, so you may want to get a 12 volt starter just because you will not be the one to drive this rig.

Yes, the solenoid will need replaced with a 12 volt unit.

Yes, 12 volt starters are readily available. Look into a high torque starter from, IIRC, a Toyota. I have no idea as to cost, I am still running my 6 volt unit.

Your alternator/starter guy should be able to convert your 6 volt starter. Ask him about cost in both time & money. IME, It is much cheaper in both time & money to replace it with a 12 volt unit.

Heck, someone on this site converting his CJ's 12 Volt system back to 6volts may want to trade you their 12 volt starter for your 6 volt one. Post a for trade add in "The Trading Post".

Whatever you do, do not throw anything electrical away before your new system is up & has worked well for a few months. I have seen that film before, It can get mighty ugly fast!

IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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Before you go ripping out the old wiring, make sure it's old, lol.  My 2a came to me with a repop harness... modern plastic insulated wire with cloth outside for the "look"
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Originally posted by CJ2A-NOOB CJ2A-NOOB wrote:

and ball joints. 




......... ........
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'48 CJ2A Lefty

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Originally posted by rocnroll rocnroll wrote:

Originally posted by CJ2A-NOOB CJ2A-NOOB wrote:

and ball joints. 




......... ........



Lol...  I wouldn't waste a lot of time on those LOL
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Yes,understood,
NO existing parts, wiring, etc, will be tossed, trashed, or traded away for quite a while. everything that gets removed will be boxed, labeled, and shelved for future reference/use.

Although the existing Starter Relay/Solenoid is still working with the 12v Battery,
 can anyone recommend what 12v Starter Relay/Solenoid I should use to replace the existing 6v model ?
 (existing 6v model has a part number "DR1465")

on edit- is this all I need?


  Also any part numbers or links to purchase a 12v Starter
Any part number or links would be greatly appreciated.



Edited by CJ2A-NOOB - 19 Oct. 2018 at 6:59pm
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Next Question,

Does anyone make/sell a good "Bolt-on" Lower Alternator bracket ?
 (or is that something I will need to fabricate myself? )

Here's the "little jewel" that is currently on there, that apparently someone felt was a good idea, hahaha.
 Me ?, ... NO, ... I DO NOT think this is sufficient, LOL !
Cheers
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Search for Willys Alternator mount.
Dennis
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'74 Cherokee
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Where are you in SoCal? I am in Glendale. Just Lose It the electrical on my 47. If you're close by I can come over and take a look at your rig.
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