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New Engine - Oil Pump Issues??

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tufcj2a View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Engine - Oil Pump Issues??
    Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 12:56am
All,

Just had the engine rebuilt (F-134 on a '47 CJ2a) and I'm having what I think is a weird issue.

I read all the threads and followed the procedures for priming the oil pump.

Cranking with the starter and battery only, plugs removed I do not get pressure at the oil gauge.

I pulled the oil pump and confirmed it has oil inside, as well as repacked it with vasoline.  Ran more tests and:

1.) I get pressure from the top filter port (both on the top of the filter and at the block ( is that odd its pushing oil on both sides of the hose?).
2.) If I remove the oil gauge fitting I get pressure (at the block).
3.) I do not get pressure with the oil gauge connected

This again is cranking with the started only.

I connected everything and did a test start for just a few seconds.  The engine runs, but again no oil pressure at the gauge.  I shut it off quickly to ensure no damage, but cannot figure out if the oil pump is working or not and if I should try to start and run the engine for break in.

I do not want to destroy my newly-rebuilt engine, but am trying to avoid doing everything myself just to bring it to the mechanic to get it running.

Any ideas, suggestions?

Thanks,

-Thomas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 1:06am
You may have some air in the line to the gauge. Can you loosen the line at the gauge and purge it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 1:47am
Air in the line to the gauge will have no effect on the pressure reading 30 psi of air is the same as 30 psi of oil.

Granted if there is air in the oil gauge line it might take a second longer to give a reading as the air is compressed to the pressure of the oil.

Do you know your gauge is working?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 1:48am
Yes, air is visible in the line from the port to the gauge, although I see that in my other CJ and Jeepster, but I will try it.  Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 64CJ5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 2:05am
Do you have a copper oil line block to gauge?  It could be kinked or have a blockage that the pressure is not moving.  The same thing if the line is nylon but you should be able to see the oil in it.  Could be the gauge too.  Just throwing things out there.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 2:06am
I would try another  oil gauge,I had a new oil gauge that did not work when I first started my engine after my rebuild . It’s easy to try another gauge.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar. 2020 at 2:11am
It's a clear nylon gauge.  I have a spare I can swap with.  I see oil and air in the gauge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 1:12am
UPDATE and frustration.  Still no oil pressure.  I checked the first gauge and installed a 2nd temporary gauge to confirm, and they show no pressure.  I pulled the oil filter and I get no pressure to the canister, but a sucking out of the top center hole when I shut the engine down.  <Confirming the center hole goes to the timing cover and outer hole goes to the block>

I pulled the old oil pump and ran a test on 2 others I had on hand.  All were confirmed good.  I put a different oil pump in and still the same issue.

One thing I noticed was there are two holes on the pump, but on the block it looks like there are 3 holes, one covered by the gasket.  Being a novice, can I be installing the pump or gasket incorrectly?

The enclosed picture has a circle where the 3rd hole is on the block and the spot circled is covered by the gasket on the pump.  Is the gasket blocking the flow?  Other thoughts are the pickup in the pan, but that is pretty hard to install incorrectly.

Getting frustrated as this should be fairly simple, the oil system isn't that complicated on this engine.

What am I missing?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

-Thomas



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 3:10am
Just a guess, but when my L134 was rebuilt the shop removed some oil galley plugs that I wasn’t aware of. Luckily I caught this when reassembling. Also the oil pick up can be blinded by debris - mine was. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 3:15am
Thanks.  That was my next step if the oil pump wasn't the issue.  Maybe a galley is clogged or the pickup isn't working.  Pulling the pan was on the list.  I'll try and let you all know.

-Thomas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michaeltru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 4:44am
Can you post pics of your external oil lines?  From block to head. Block to gauge. Block to oil filter canister.  oil filter canister to timing cover.  Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 4:59am
I'll take some picts tomorrow, but here's a diagram of the oil lines and layout:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 52 M38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 9:53am
In the nylon tube to your gauge, does the oil and air move when you turn the engine over?  I likely have the same gauge as you, it is my backup since the original in the dash is less than awesome.  I do not get oil pressure from cranking it over, once the engine starts mine builds to about 25-30 psi over about 5 seconds.  At anything over idle I have around 40 psi which is where the relief spring must cut in. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 1:12pm
Remove and inspect the screen in the oil pickup, confirm all oil galley plugs are installed..... I very much doubt the oil galley would be plugged.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 1:38pm
Pic of internal Oil gallery plugs as mentioned by Lee...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Lee (MN) Lee (MN) wrote:

Remove and inspect the screen in the oil pickup, confirm all oil galley plugs are installed..... I very much doubt the oil galley would be plugged.

Lee

Also check to be sure that the aluminum stand that supports the screen is absolutely flat where it bolts to the block, top center in ggordon’s picture. If it’s not flat it will suck air, and if the pump gets air it cannot pump oil. 
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Edited by Bruce W - 07 Mar. 2020 at 6:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by tufcj2a tufcj2a wrote:

Thanks.  That was my next step if the oil pump wasn't the issue.  Maybe a galley is clogged or the pickup isn't working.  Pulling the pan was on the list.  I'll try and let you all know.

-Thomas


     You mentioned you had a couple of oil pumps.  What you could do is take the gear off one of them and install the pump after priming it (I just use oil to prime) and using a steel rod with the end flattened and using a drill to spin the pump counter clock wise to check the oil system until you find the problem if there is a problem. This will also put oil through the bearings and prevent a dry start up.  I have a pump (I painted red)  just for this procedure.  I hate the thought of an engine starting without oil pressure.
    
    Jim
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar. 2020 at 9:51pm
You could also blow a bit of compressed air into the oil galley, if a plug is out you’ll know immediately.

Lee😉
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