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New Spindle/Rzeppa Axle Clearance

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Ankle Deep View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Mar. 2023 at 6:11pm

Hello to the forum.

I’m in the process of rebuilding the steering knuckles etc on my 1946 CJ2a.  I purchased new spindles and upon reassembly I discovered that the splines on the end of the Rzeppa axle shaft exceed the inside diameter of the new spindle.  The new spindle will not slide over the axle.

The wall thickness of the new spindle tube is greater than the wall thickness of the OEM spindle. That accounts for the reduced diameter.

I contacted the supplier and he stated “we don’t have that problem here”.  I explained that the splines on the end of the axle have additional, inboard “bump outs” on each spline.  These bumps are the cause of the problem.  It’s my recollection that he repeated the phrase, “we don’t have that problem here”.  Well, that wasn’t much help because “I have that problem here”.  So, I asked if grinding the bumps flush with remainder of the spines could be a solution. His response was non-committal…more of a “a guess that may work”.  At that point I decided to let him get back to the mass marketing of third world parts and do some thinking.

I have attached some photos.

Any thoughts on a solution from the experts on the forum? 

Is the removal of the “bumps” until flush with the remained of the spline a possible solution? 

Thanks in Advance!

  


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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2023 at 7:28pm
Let me guess...Kaiser-Willys supplying Omix-ADA parts?
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TERRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2023 at 7:29pm
Betcha the spindle is Omix-Ada. And what is wrong with your old spindles?

Edited by TERRY - 30 Mar. 2023 at 7:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2023 at 7:46pm
  Don’t tell me, let me guess - Omix-ADA?
  I wouldn’t do that without some serious research, and you have started that. 
  Are you running stock drive flanges or lock-out hubs? If lock-outs, what brand? Does the new spindle have a bushing in the inner end? Does the bushing have a flange? Are these factory original Rzeppa axles or aftermarket?
  If you grind them off, tightening the nut will draw the axle out through the flange or lock-out gear until the nut or washer contacts the end of the spline or until the housing of the Rzeppa joint contacts the inner flat surface of the spindle. If the former occurs, there will be nothing to prevent the axle from drifting on out until the joint contacts the inner flat surface of the spindle. 
  I need to look at a Bendix axle, but I’m sure they have the same stops, or bumps. 
BW 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2023 at 8:29pm
That new spindle looks quite a bit thicker.

I believe both the Rzeppa and Bendix early originals have the bumps. 

I came up with something a week ago that I believe is a later OEM replacement axle. It has the Rzeppa joint, does not have the bumps, does not have the threaded end, but does have a C clip groove.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar. 2023 at 11:33pm
I will go down to the barn in the morning and look at that later Rzeppa axle I have, to make sure it doesn't have the bumps.

Setting end float is not as critical for the Rzeppa joints, as it is with the Bendix joints. I am thinking you could probably get away with grinding off the bumps, but I want to think about that a little more before I agree with the idea. 

It is funny to me that most folks think the Spicer joint is superior, and it may be in some ways, but I think the Rzeppa was the best of the lot. 

Were it me, I would look for original spindles in serviceable condition. 

 


Edited by Oldpappy - 30 Mar. 2023 at 11:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ankle Deep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 8:14am

Re: questions

Kaiser-Willys supplying Omix-ADA parts?   Yes, I assume so…

 

And what is wrong with your old spindles?  Tattered threads.

 

Are you running stock drive flanges or lock-out hubs? If lock-outs, what brand?

Lock-out hubs. There are no identifiable markings on the hub (photo attached).

 

Does the new spindle have a bushing in the inner end? Does the bushing have a flange? 

Yes, with a flange.

Are these factory original Rzeppa axles or aftermarket?  Unknown. 

 

Were it me, I would look for original spindles in serviceable condition.

  I have a spindle in serviceable condition but is has the old-style bronze bushing without a flange.  I also have a new bushing on hand that has the flange.  I agree, I’m thinking plan A should be to swap out the bushings and go that route.  I tried tapping the bushing out but it isn’t moving.  Any advice on removing the old bushing?

Thanks all for the input.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 10:56am
  I have replaced those bushings a few times and they can be a bear to get out. I put the spindle in a vice and cut a slot in the bushing with a small cape chisel. If you use the nut on the end of the axle and properly set the end play, you won’t need the flange on the bushing. 
BW 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  Don’t tell me, let me guess - Omix-ADA?
  I wouldn’t do that without some serious research, and you have started that. 
  Are you running stock drive flanges or lock-out hubs? If lock-outs, what brand? Does the new spindle have a bushing in the inner end? Does the bushing have a flange? Are these factory original Rzeppa axles or aftermarket?
  If you grind them off, tightening the nut will draw the axle out through the flange or lock-out gear until the nut or washer contacts the end of the spline or until the housing of the Rzeppa joint contacts the inner flat surface of the spindle. If the former occurs, there will be nothing to prevent the axle from drifting on out until the joint contacts the inner flat surface of the spindle. 
  I need to look at a Bendix axle, but I’m sure they have the same stops, or bumps. 
BW 


Bendix axles do have the same "bumps" on the outer axle stub. They would have originally rested on the back side of the drive flange when the axle nut was tightened. I would imagine that the Rzeppa axle outer axle stub was similar in design. the purpose would have been in both cases to limit the in and out axle "float".
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 3:09pm
The axle I pulled last week with a Rzeppa Joint is a later axle which was apparently used as a replacement on a 47 CJ2A I parted out. 

As said above it does not have the stops/bumps, and does not have the threaded end like the earlier version. It does have the C clip groove and is drilled and threaded on the end. This one was installed with an early drive flange and a bolt with washer/shim was used instead of the C clip. The spindle does have the later flanged bushing. 

After thinking about it some more I advise against grinding the bump/stops off of that axle. 

The later version has a bearing surface on the cone for riding on that spindle bushing flange. That combined with the bolt or C clip is to keeps the axle from floating in or out. 

The earlier version used those stops keep the axle from floating outward, and inward float was controlled by the nut and washer/shims. 

Since the earlier spindle bushing do not have the flange I doubt the cone has provision for that. 

I never think it a good idea to modify a good original part to make it work with an incorrectly made reproduction part. 

Again, I suggest you find a serviceable original spindle.

Here are some pictures of the later axle I have.








Edited by Oldpappy - 31 Mar. 2023 at 3:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ankle Deep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 8:14pm
Thank you sir!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 9:07pm
A good original spindle shouldn't be difficult to find. I suggest posting a WTB in the forum classifieds. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar. 2023 at 9:26pm
  Oldpappy said: “I never think it a good idea to modify a good original part to make it work with an incorrectly made reproduction part.”

  Hear, hear!
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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