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original seat fabric?

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all4jpn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Oct. 2010 at 4:19pm
so i took my seats apart today...the backs had the springs still.....one of the backs had this piece of gray material between the springs and the seat itself.....the covers that were on there weren't original..but this piece was different...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2010 at 4:48pm
That is what the original material was.
Sam

1946 CJ2A   15292 ACM    6678

1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all4jpn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct. 2010 at 4:53pm
cool....well its a big piece...for whatever reason if someone wants a swatch..lemme know..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 9:27pm
Here is another photo of a very early 2A with vinyl gray seat coverings.  This Jeep belongs to Chris of this forum.  I am posting it to reinforce the notion that the gray vinyl material was used on early 2As even though it has been asserted in another thread that canvas is the correct covering and that the vinyl was not introduced until mid '47.  I believe there is simply too much empirical evidence that the slate gray was used on early 2As.


Sam

1946 CJ2A   15292 ACM    6678

1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 9:53pm
earliest known part number for Slate Gray is #668047 (668 series was well into 1947), per the BOM introduced after 6-18-1947...
 
part numbers per color in order they were released.....
 
663272  Olive Drab vinylite
 
666590  Barcelona Red vinylite
 
668047  Slate Gray vinylite
 
all per the CJ2A BOM......
 
the 668 series was much later than 1945/46
 
i would suggest cross cutting the presumed Gray seat cover, i would almost bet you will find a green tint in the cross layers.....
 
the fabric was not specified to be UV tolerant, therefore fading surely took place......
 
i cannot say for Chris' fabric, but all4jpn's fabric (that in the pics looks gray) shows green of the binding material :)
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:23pm
low,

I agree with the part number sequencing.  I'm wondering - are you certain that the BOM you  are referencing refers to the driver's seat and/or the passenger seat?  The part number you reference for the OD material does not show up in the '45 parts list, although there is a back seat that is 663227, a slight reordering of the digits. Could there be a typo?  That has happened.

Can you share whatever other descriptive information is on the BOM where the 663272 part number appears?
Sam

1946 CJ2A   15292 ACM    6678

1947 CJ2A 122031 ACM 111989

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Night0wl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:26pm
Don't the early videos we have all seen show grey seat covers on the 45 and 46 model?
Night0wl
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:29pm
it is not in the "seat" section, it is in the "trim" section, and lists the material in bulk....
 
the driver seat, passenger seat, and rear seat all have their own section in the BOM, and none of the 3 have sub-groups referencing seat fabric (material)....
 
there is NO part # for bulk fabric (material) listing in the 45 parts list, nor an individual part number for a specific seat fabric pertaining to any of the 3 available seats.....
 
 
edit:
 
front seat covers carry part #663624 per BOM..  (not in the parts list)
 
#663624 could also be a late CJ-2 transition part number awaiting a "release for production number" for the CJ2A...
 
#663272- GROUP 19-6 (no 19-6 in the parts list)
OLIVE DRAB FABRIC 112 SATEEN VINYLITE COATED...            AS Reqd.
 
 
 
 


Edited by lowenuf - 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:41pm
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:46pm
part #663273 is the Dark Olive Drab Duck GROUP 26-14   (Top material)
 
 
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all4jpn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:52pm
low..the green in my pic is the green cover they had on the outside (the replacement)..i need to send you the shipping on  the bracket(got it today ,thanks)...need me to throw in a piece of the fabric?..my piece is just a big rectangle...no sewn pieces to it..(just thread left on it) 

Edited by all4jpn - 01 Dec. 2010 at 10:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec. 2010 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by lowenuf lowenuf wrote:

#663272- GROUP 19-6 (no 19-6 in the parts list)
OLIVE DRAB FABRIC 112 SATEEN VINYLITE COATED...            AS Reqd.

Couldn't this be referencing the binding material for the top since it is one number off?

Also I noticed in the 1945 parts list that the front passenger seat was available in all three colors in the same part number.
663500 Kit, Front Passenger Seat (Olive Drab, Barcelona Red or Slate Gray)

Also the part number for the back seat is the same for all three colors in the 1947 parts book.
666373 Kit, Rear Passenger Seat (Olive Drab, Barcelona Red or Slate Gray)

So if all three colors are listed in the 1945 parts list the number sequence may not relate to the time of production or those numbers may not be referring to the seat covers.

Also here are two pretty nice original seats early style in gray, and green.
Is there anything stating when/how part numbers were assigned?






Edited by russnj - 02 Dec. 2010 at 12:13am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 7:15am
Originally posted by russnj russnj wrote:

Originally posted by lowenuf lowenuf wrote:

#663272- GROUP 19-6 (no 19-6 in the parts list)
OLIVE DRAB FABRIC 112 SATEEN VINYLITE COATED...            AS Reqd.

Couldn't this be referencing the binding material for the top since it is one number off?

Also I noticed in the 1945 parts list that the front passenger seat was available in all three colors in the same part number.
663500 Kit, Front Passenger Seat (Olive Drab, Barcelona Red or Slate Gray)

Also the part number for the back seat is the same for all three colors in the 1947 parts book.
666373 Kit, Rear Passenger Seat (Olive Drab, Barcelona Red or Slate Gray)

So if all three colors are listed in the 1945 parts list the number sequence may not relate to the time of production or those numbers may not be referring to the seat covers.

Also here are two pretty nice original seats early style in gray, and green.
Is there anything stating when/how part numbers were assigned?

. . . .
  Russ, I think you were looking at Sean's online parts list.  There, when the part number does not change between editions ('45, '47' and '49) , he has generally folded together any descriptive information so as to not have to have separate descriptions for each edition.  In my paper copy of the '45 parts list, there is no indication of the color or type of fabric in the description of the seat covers or seat assemblies.

I think that the original style rear seat that you show is further evidence that the gray covering was available and used earlier than the time-frame of the part number in the BOM that has been cited.  Service Letter 808 states: "REAR SEAT - The Jeep rear seat was made wider and the padding and filler changed for better riding comfort. Started with Model CJ-2A, Serial No. 77568, on December 12, 1946."

That same Service Letter has this very interesting bit for which I see two interpretations:
"SEAT TRIM MATERIAL - The new slate gray seat trim material was adopted
for use with Paint Options No. 4 (Michigan Yellow) and No. 9 (Luzon Red)
to improve the appearance beginning with Jeep Model CJ-2A Vehicle Serial
No. 145005 on October 15, 1947. Part No. 668047 Gray Coated Fabric (50”
wide) supercedes Part No. 663272."

Interpretation #1:  The "new slate gray trim material" referenced was first introduced on October 15, 1947 for all vehicles.

Interpretation #2:  The "new slate gray trim material" referenced was first introduced on October 15, 1947 for Michigan Yellow and Luzon Red vehicles replacing the use of OD all together. 

Note, too, that Interpretation #1 is contradicted by the combination of the photo of an early rear seat with gray material and the Service Letter dating the rear seat change at December 12, 1946.

I think this information offers several new puzzles.  Perhaps there is a simple explanation that has not yet been advanced.
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:27am
i have to concur....
 
actual visual of comparisons far exceeds the written that cannot be seen.......
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:28am
Sam, you are correct about using Sean's online list.

Maybe he can explain how he setup the descriptions. I thought that he was using the text directly from each list. I think it is interesting how they used the same part number for three different colors.

More info is needed! If anyone has info please post it!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:30am
regarding the two early seats above, next quest might have to be a search to determine when the short back was replaced by the taller back......
 
meaning, how long was the short back being provided for the 2A before being phased out....
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russnj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:37am
Quote Originally posted by samcj2a
Service Letter 808 states: "REAR SEAT - The Jeep rear seat was made wider and the padding and filler changed for better riding comfort. Started with Model CJ-2A, Serial No. 77568, on December 12, 1946."


This might be the change, is the later style actually wider?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:46am
ok, great info, however, the date is a generalized date, it may have been implemented immediately, or may have taken a few weeks to a few months to incorporate into the actual assembly line....
 
but......that date is a great starting point to decipher part number additions......
 
when i stated the 668 series was well into the 47 year above, it could have started in late 46..... 
 
i concur that Slate Gray was possibly available in late 46 at the earliest.......
 
the "wider" i am certain was referring to the additional size of the back panel....
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all4jpn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 9:28am
just to add to reinforce lows theory..my cj (57074)has an approx build date of sep. 1946...(guess  based on production info)..although the heep has a lot of m38/gpw parts mixed in i believe the seats are original
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