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original seat fabric?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 9:35am
i am researching at this time, and i will probably eat my words (not the first time), but i am certain the 668 series part numbers were not in effect during the column shift production era.....
 
thx matt......i do agree with your above comment....
 
regarding Slate Gray, i can say that the color was available on the front, and rear top pieces well before it was available for the seat cover fabric....
 
and to answer Russ' question about my earlier post, that if i could be referring to the gimp, the answer is no, the gimp carries it's own part number, for all 3 colors it is different for each color.....
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 9:59am
Russ:
Quote Maybe he can explain how he setup the descriptions...
It was as Sam explained.  I had to take some liberties to condense the list, otherwise every part would have been listed 3 times.

While seat color options were never mentioned until the '49 parts list, we know they were available long before that.  There are surviving examples early short-back seats in all 3 colors.

Low:
Quote earliest known part number for Slate Gray is #668047 (668 series was well into 1947), per the BOM introduced after 6-18-1947...
That is the "new" Slate Gray material, as stipulated is SB 855.  Per prior discussions, 2 different Slate Gray fabrics have been found, with distinctly different grain patterns.

The BOMs are valuable info, but I don't think they can be considered the "last word" in every case.  Same for the parts lists, service bulletins, etc.  Until/unless every piece of documentation is found, there's wiggle room.  IMO, physical evidence sometimes trumps the documentation we have to date..

Remember too, while color choices were the same, the early OD rear seat fabric was NOT the same as the gray front seat fabric.  I haven't yet seen an early rear seat w/the same type fabric as front seats.

Russ:
Quote
Originally posted by samcj2a samcj2a wrote:

Service Letter 808 states: "REAR SEAT - The Jeep rear seat was made wider and the padding and filler changed for better riding comfort. Started with Model CJ-2A, Serial No. 77568, on December 12, 1946."
This might be the change, is the later style actually wider?
Yes.  The early seat covers left the tubing exposed.  Later, thicker/taller covers, extended over the tubing, so about 2" wider LOL

Low:
Quote ok, great info, however, the date is a generalized date
Not so. IMO, that is the date the change occurred on the assembly line.  The service bulletin published date is Jan 17, post dating the actual change by some 35 days.  I believe whenever they tie a change to a specific vehicle s/n on a specific date, then it's already happened, and the date & s/n were recorded for future reference.

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 10:43am
Originally posted by sean sean wrote:

. . . .
Low:
earliest known part number for Slate Gray is #668047 (668 series was well into 1947), per the BOM introduced after 6-18-1947...
That is the "new" Slate Gray material, as stipulated is SB 855.  Per prior discussions, 2 different Slate Gray fabrics have been found, with distinctly different grain patterns. . . .
Sean
Sean,  can you point us towards any of these prior discussions, and were there photos of the different patterns?
 
Also, to throw another subjective observation in the mix, I will mention that a year ago at the Westminster, MD, Jeep gathering, there was a very original-looking Pasture Green 2A from Euphrata, PA, I believe, that had original looking seats.  I recall being a little unceratin about the color and fabric because it looked more OD than gray.  At the time, I was unaware of the possibility that there was early use of OD vinyl.  I'll dig out the photos when I have time and post then here if they seem at all useful.  I hope that I got some decent shots of the fabric! Embarrassed
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 10:54am
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/seat-covers_topic3794.html

A search for "seat cover" (phrase) in "topic subject" get's most of the others Wink

Quote I recall being a little unceratin about the color and fabric because it looked more OD than gray.  At the time, I was unaware of the possibility that there was early use of OD vinyl
It's not a stretch to believe OD could fade to Gray.  They are very similar in shade to begin with.

I have yet to see front seats that could positively be called OD, but rear seats certainly were.

Sean


Edited by sean - 02 Dec. 2010 at 10:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willys Motors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 12:44pm
 
668047 was added March 5th, 1947
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 1:02pm
Do you have any insight into which seat covering or covering was/were in use between first production and the introduction of that slate gray?
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Night0wl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:33pm
I have very little to add to this discussion in the way of BOM or original covers to show.  Sad to say mine(1945 original seat covers) were thrown away before I knew we were going to restore this Jeep.  I may have some pictures some where but I don't think it would be a good comparison given the age and time it sat outside.  But agian I refer to the video that was made with the early 45 or maybe the prototype CJ2's on them.  Color is not perfect but it clearly looks to be grey in the video; both on the front and rear seat seem to have the same material covering.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:40pm
Here's the '46 I mentioned earlier.  In person, the seats looked more olive than gray.



These seats looked olive in person and they look olive to me in the photos.  If you think they look gray, then how do you explain the uniform change in shade when we've seen so many clearly gray seats survive?



This Jeep belongs to Dave Wilson, Euphrata, PA, and is CJ-2A 39649 .  Besides these seat samples, it was very original in most respects.
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec. 2010 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by Night0wl Night0wl wrote:

I have very little to add to this discussion in the way of BOM or original covers to show.  Sad to say mine(1945 original seat covers) were thrown away before I knew we were going to restore this Jeep.  I may have some pictures some where but I don't think it would be a good comparison given the age and time it sat outside.  But agian I refer to the video that was made with the early 45 or maybe the prototype CJ2's on them.  Color is not perfect but it clearly looks to be grey in the video; both on the front and rear seat seem to have the same material covering.
 
  Dave, I lean towards those seats being olive.  It's tough to be confident because the color shifts around in that video.  My thought now is that, independent of whether or not gray was available in the early production, I'm convinced that olive was used as an early seat covering.
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 10:05am
Originally posted by all4jpn all4jpn wrote:

cool....well its a big piece...for whatever reason if someone wants a swatch..lemme know..
I'd take the whole piece, if nobody else claims "swatches".

It's the same base fabric as the covers I have, but different grain texture.

Will PM you too.

Sean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote F Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 10:13am
At some point I'd like a swatch to send off to S and S fabrics to see if they can match it but at the moment I am stuck in Iowa awaiting a snowstorm...I kinda dropped the ball in our previous PM's....These are the guys that repopped the striped canvas for Surreys at $150 a yard. (approx)
If you haven't checked out the tech FAQ section, go to:
http://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/tech-faq_forum57.html
for a lot of great stuff you need to know!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote all4jpn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 10:19am
i just want a small piece for the eventual resto scrapbook..more than happy to hook you guys up....just pm me your info i'll close out my offer on Sunday, and will cut it up and mail monday..the less people, the bigger piece you get :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willys Motors Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 2:07pm
Bill,
 
Is that the place in the Pacific Northwest ?
 
I don't recall the last batch of surrey vinyl costing that much unless you mean after it was custom painted and striped...
 
Oh, and the dies for surrey fabric are very different from the ones for Cj2A seat covers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Night0wl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 2:27pm
Sam,
I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.  The last part of that video clearly shows those covers to be grey.  The part where the family is going to church....at the very end of the video. The color is good enough there to make a distinction and doesn't shift during this still camera shot.  The harvest tan of the Jeep and the autumn red of the wheels is a good representation as well.  This is just my opinion of course.  And not to mention that this may not be what Willys went with in production.  I just see one of the first 2A's made and I see "grey" on those seats.  I'm not basing my whole decision on this one video mind you I just think it's good evidence. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 3:01pm

Dave,

There's a lot of different colors showing up in the video and I can certainly see the segment where the seats appears gray.
 
I'm much more interested in everyone's reaction to the seats in the Pasture Green Jeep that I posted.  Does anyone disagree that those seats are olive color?  I realize that having a discussion about color as dsiplayed on the Web on any given computer screen is adventuresome at best, but I will say that I've seen those seats in person and viewed the photos on several different computer screens and they all look olive and not gray.   Speak up! Big smile
Sam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bkreutz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 3:14pm
The look grey to me. (of course you have to realize I'm color blind, so I guess I'm no help since just about everything is a shade of greyLOL)
Gale

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 3:17pm
F Bill, your PM inbox is full! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samcj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2010 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by bkreutz bkreutz wrote:

The look grey to me. (of course you have to realize I'm color blind, so I guess I'm no help since just about everything is a shade of greyLOL)
   That's great! LOLLOLLOL
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