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Bruce W View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 12:47am
  I've been working on putting together a good transmission and transfer case for Uncle Lynden's CJ2-A. Had some trouble getting the transmission the way I wanted it, and the transfer case has been fighting me for a couple of months now. Finally got it all together, and decided to install the overdrive today. I had a hard time getting the bowl gear to go in, it seemed to be a tight fit on the shaft, but I got it in there without too much force, and got the nut tight. Then it hit. When I turned the parking brake drum to rotate the gears in the t/case and trans, it went "tightloosetightloosetightloosetight" and clunkclunkclunkclunk. What th'? Feels like the gear is hitting something inside the case. I pulled it out and looked for interference inside the case, and found nothing. Then I realized it was still doing that as I pulled it out, if I turned the gear, until the gear un-meshed with the intermediate gear. I put it back in, and it did that as soon as the gears came together. So I pulled it out again and put the "normal" drive gear in, and it works like a charm. I counted the teeth on both the old gear and the bowl gear several times to be sure that they are both 26 tooth gears. I coated several teeth on the bowl gear with Prussian Blue and put the bowl gear in the case once more, then I turned the entire gear train several turns and then pulled the gear out again. The flanks of all of the teeth show a pretty nice pattern, a nice even spread, but the bottoms of the "V's" between teeth are completely clean and shiny, no blue at all. The tips of the intermediate gear teeth are contacting (with considerable pressure) the bottom of the "V's" of the bowl gear. On examination, the teeth on the bowl gear look "fatter" and shorter than the teeth on the old gear. I suppose it's possible that the PO of the overdrive replaced the bowl gear at some time, and got a piece of crap like most of the parts we see today. Maybe this is why he sold the overdrive so cheap. Who makes parts for the Warn O/D? Omix? Has anyone seen anything like this before?
  As Captain Binghamton said, "Why Me?"  Ouch  
  I guess the overdrive will have to wait. I installed the old gear and blasted and painted a rear cover for the case.  BW

Edit to add photo.




Edited by Bruce W - 09 Oct. 2019 at 1:09am
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tamnalan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 1:33am
I had a similar problem with an NOS transfer case intermediate gear a while back.  "NOS" apparently meant "factory reject".  
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tamnalan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 1:35am
It just clattered when I tried to use it.  Never would mesh quietly.  I'd be glad to sell it for the right price... :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 8:02am
Bruce - I'll be at the Denver Hobby Expo this Friday after noon and all day Saturday. Do you want me to bring a 'different' 26 tooth bowl gear?
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Bruce W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 1:30pm
Alan-
  I don’t think the intermediate gear is the problem, it meshes well with the high-speed output gear and with the original drive gear. I guess I could try another 26-tooth drive gear and see if they are compatible, but I don’t see much point in that. 

Keith-
  That would be greatly appreciated. Can I meet you someplace?

BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 7:28pm
Say Bruce strange problem for sure. 

If someone could measure across the width of their 26 tooth bowl or their main shaft gear then that alone would tell you a lot.
I would measure across one myself but all  have are the 29 tooth gears.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 8:33pm
Bruce - I'll PM you with my cell number.

I'm working at the "Denver Mart" long hours so you would need to meet me there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamnalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 8:40pm
Oh, yeah Bruce -- sorry to miscommunicate.  I was trying to point to how things are sometimes manufactured.  Hopefully your drive gear isn't afflicted with the same quality issue that plagues my intermediate gear.

Very kind of Mr Friday to offer!  Kudos to Keith.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 9:17pm
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Bruce W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct. 2019 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

Say Bruce strange problem for sure. 

If someone could measure across the width of their 26 tooth bowl or their main shaft gear then that alone would tell you a lot.
I would measure across one myself but all  have are the 29 tooth gears.

  Ken, I attempted to measure mine, but a gear is a much more complex thing than it appears to be. Measuring one is much more than "OD and ID". I measured the bowl gear and the drive gear on the OD and tried to measure the depth of the teeth or the "V", and subtract the depth from the OD to find the "minor diameter", and the bowl gear actually seems to measure smaller than the original drive gear. But the Prussian Blue does not lie, and neither does the way this thing feels as I turn it. Methinks something smells fishy in Denmark Canada. 

Alan said, ' "NOS" apparently meant "factory reject".'

Yes, I have run into that a time or two as well. I recently bought two "NOS" distributor shafts that would put the rotor 1/4 turn off from the correct position - and they are a 1/2 turn off from each other!  BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct. 2019 at 10:40am
Yeah well the term NOS is rather vague.
It does not imply the part to be OEM nor does it specify it as replacement  stock.
In general NOS is certainly  good if it implies the "Seal Tested" brand otherwise it may be questionable.

Have little idea who all has been making O.D. bowl gears. or is it the intermediate gear that was purported NOS ?
Is this a Warn 25% O.D. unit ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct. 2019 at 12:58pm
Strange indeed----Herm might know what's going on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct. 2019 at 1:36pm
  I acquired another 26-tooth bowl gear (Thanks Joe!), put it in, and all is fine. BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct. 2019 at 7:34pm
Glad to know it worked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2020 at 1:18pm
  Well, I thought it was fine. It did still seem a bit tight, but turned much easier and without the “tightloosetightloosetightloose” feeling or the “clunkclunkclunk”. But.... I finally got the transmission/transfer case/overdrive installed. Filled with oil and started up to pre-oil the overdrive by running it with the transfer case in neutral, as stated in the od instructions. HOLY MOLY what a racket! Sounded like something in one of these three boxes was eating itself. It actually kinda sounded like the bowl gear was rubbing the oil trough or something. No noise with the transmission in neutral, and changing transmission gear or od in/out changed the speed of the noise. It’s gotta be the overdrive. Pulled it out and sure enough, you can see where the points of the intermediate gear teeth were contacting the root, or bottom of the “V” in the bowl gear teeth. I put the stock drive gear in and all is fine, nice and quiet and smooth. I guess I’ll give up the idea of using an overdrive with this transfer case. 
  During some clean-up work, I decided to separate a destroyed T-90 from its transfer case and get a tooth count. I noticed something right off. The tips of the intermediate gear are flat on the ends and maybe 3/16-1/8 inch wide. The tips of the teeth in the troublesome case are nearly pointed, maybe 3/64-1/16 wide. For gear teeth of the same profile to be thinner at the tip, they must be longer. So the problem has been the intermediate gear all along. Maybe it was a replacement at some time, I don’t know, it came to me in a used transfer case that I bought. I used it because it was in like-new condition. 
  So, I guess, no overdrive for Uncle Lynden’s jeep unless I decide to change to a different intermediate gear or a different transfer case. 
  Kind of a long post, but I wanted to share with you all what I found. This may help someone in the future. 
BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2020 at 2:42pm
Can you post a phot of the offending intermediate gear?  I'll soon be installing a Warn OD I sent to Herm. I'd like to head off any problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2020 at 3:30pm
Bruce, a simple fix, re-install the offending parts, pull the pan off the transfercase, and run it so it rotates. Then take a side grinder to the intermediate gear. Problem solved. Like using a drill press as a lathe. Magnetic drain plugs would help right???????

Sorry , couldn't resist it. That sure sucks to go to all that work, oil draining, gaskets, pulling it apart over and over, I feel for you. I may have a extra intermediate gear if you need one. Very strange how it works with a standard drive gear, but not the bowl gears. 

Is this the Canadian deal you beat me to?????? If so, thanks pal. LOL Oilly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan. 2020 at 11:03pm
  chief, I'll try to get you a couple of pictures tomorrow, I kinda wanted to post some here anyway. You might mention this to Herm, see if he's ever run into this. I'd be curious to hear what he has to say.

 Oilly, I thought of doing something like that, and that led to the thought of putting the intermediate gear in my lathe and turning the OD down. But I've had enough. I don't want to R&R the transfer case, or R&R the gear with the case in the jeep. This jeep has never had an overdrive, I thought it would be neat to have one (My 3B has one), but I don't want it bad enough to keep fighting it. It will be fine without it. I will build another transfer case, maybe another transmission/transfer case combo, and if I feel like it later and the OD works OK in it, maybe I'll change it. Or not. Later.
  Yes, this is the overdrive I got out of Canada, but now I don't believe the overdrive is the problem, it's the transfer case intermediate gear that I got from another member of the forum, but I don't hold him at fault either. LOL
  Alan, I guess that what you said has some merit, I'd kinda like to see some pictures of your offending intermediate gear, or the gear itself.
BW
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