Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Tech Questions and Answers
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Play "What's this hole for?" with me...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Play "What's this hole for?" with me...
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Vintage Don View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 Sep. 2020
Location: Medina, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr. 2021 at 5:03pm
Thanks, Joe.

I'm just finishing up replacing a sizeable chunk of the outer tub, below the passenger door ahead of the rear wheel opening. I'll post that adventure a little later, when I get some paint on there to be able to say "it's done."

So here's a "teaser," haha -



But this brings me to my next "hole question." The next sheetmetal repair will be replacing the little "steps" or front fender extensions. Mine are swiss cheese. I've bought the replacement pieces, looked like a better path than fabrication from scratch.

Here's that situation - showing what remains of the original, and the replacement piece -



So my question is regarding the hole at the very rear, on the little tab that comes off the back.

It is present on both sides of mine - and I'm fairly sure I can see it on other Jeeps that are in good shape or restored. Which makes me think it probably "belongs there." But it is NOT pre-drilled on the re-pop, which could mean it's not supposed to be there, or maybe only certain years have it.

It doesn't seem to serve any purpose. 

Here (next photo) I have stuck a piece of paper behind it so you can better see what I'm talking about.

Does it belong, and I should drill it into the replacement piece? Does it serve any purpose?



Thanks!
Back to Top
SlaterDoc View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 Mar. 2020
Location: Catskills, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 222 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SlaterDoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 12:58am
Don, from my understanding that hole on that tab is for either bolting or plug welding. However, I've seen that tab behind the side panel, not in front on a number of jeeps! Walck's sells the cowl panels with that tab spot welded on the out side! So, I assume that is the correct position even though I'm going the other way! To me, it just looks better hidden behind!
Once a Navy man, always a Navy man!
Back to Top
Vintage Don View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 Sep. 2020
Location: Medina, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by SlaterDoc SlaterDoc wrote:

Don, from my understanding that hole on that tab is for either bolting or plug welding. However, I've seen that tab behind the side panel, not in front on a number of jeeps! Walck's sells the cowl panels with that tab spot welded on the out side! So, I assume that is the correct position even though I'm going the other way! To me, it just looks better hidden behind!

Thanks for your thoughts. Interesting, I never focused on a vehicle where this tab went to the inside. I guess you would have to somehow cut a slot in the cowl side to accomplish that.

As you mentioned, the re-pops certainty seem to expect it to be mounted with the tab on the outside of the cowl. (But they come without the hole).

These 'steps" were originally made as part of the big cowl stamping - it's obvious that it started as a single piece of steel, with the 90 degree brake at the bottom to form the step. So they had to choose to add that little tab. As a reinforcement?

But the fundamental question remains - is it supposed to have that HOLE in it? (And the secondary question that results - what's it for? haha). It was clearly there on mine, on both sides. And no inner hole to make it possible to stick a bolt through it....


Edited by Vintage Don - 13 Apr. 2021 at 1:54pm
Back to Top
RSR_MK View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 22 May 2009
Location: Cabool Mo
Status: Offline
Points: 657 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSR_MK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 2:32pm
Don, I looked at a few this morning and I’m pretty sure they all have a plug weld in that hole. 

I was fairly sure till I looked at the bad side of my wood cutting jeep. I don’t think the tab would still be there without a plug weld. 

Mike
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 9648 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 4:30pm
  Well, I hate to be a grouch, but -
I’ve never seen an MB, a CJ2-A, a CJ3A, an M38 or a CJ3B that did not have that tab, or a hole in it, or a plug weld in the hole, or the tab inside. I don’t know its purpose but it’s always there, so if you want a correct restoration it needs to be there. If you don’t care about “correct” and think it looks bad, cut it off. On the MB and M38, the lower leg of the ax handle bracket goes through that hole. 
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 3

Joined: 22 Jan. 2016
Location: S.E. Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 3190 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 4:49pm
Just a matter for the record, MD Juan CJ-2A tubs do not have that hole and the tab is outside the step secured by a couple of spotwelds.

...so, IF Bruce is correct about his tab configuration (and I would bet my bottom dollar he IS correct), THEN it follows that this would be a very easy way to spot a repop tub because that is what Ol' Red is...a MD Juan repop.

Alert the Jeep police!
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.
Back to Top
Joe Friday View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 26 Dec. 2010
Location: Jeep Central
Status: Offline
Points: 3654 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 5:51pm
Don, the tab with the hole is spot welded on. If I can find a part number for the cowl piece, I can look for the tooling diagram. Meanwhile Bruce W is SPOT (welded) ON in this case.

Don't look at a GPW as reference... I'm embarrassed to say I didn't learn till recently that the step on the Ford produced GPW bodies was welded on as a separate part (without hole), so that may be why the cheap repro's don't have it.
Back to Top
Vintage Don View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 Sep. 2020
Location: Medina, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  Well, I hate to be a grouch, but -
I’ve never seen an MB, a CJ2-A, a CJ3A, an M38 or a CJ3B that did not have that tab, or a hole in it, or a plug weld in the hole, or the tab inside. I don’t know its purpose but it’s always there, so if you want a correct restoration it needs to be there. If you don’t care about “correct” and think it looks bad, cut it off. On the MB and M38, the lower leg of the ax handle bracket goes through that hole. 
BW 

Nope, that's not being a grouch at all - that's answering my question! Haha.. And I thank you for that.

And I DO care about what is correct - which is why I'm asking the question, of course. So on my re-pop patch piece, I will be drilling that hole, and putting everything back exactly like it was built. (So that Joe Friday doesn't bust me...)

I was talking to Carl Walck this morning too - and he agrees that the tab is always there, and always has the hole - which he has seen filled with a weld puddle but usually not. 


Edited by Vintage Don - 13 Apr. 2021 at 6:12pm
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 9648 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 6:35pm
  If you have a tab with no hole, as I had on Tiny’s jeep (The tab was torn off and gone, I had to make one) you’ll probably find that the hole is not centered in the tab. It will be above or below center. 
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
Vintage Don View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 Sep. 2020
Location: Medina, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr. 2021 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  If you have a tab with no hole, as I had on Tiny’s jeep (The tab was torn off and gone, I had to make one) you’ll probably find that the hole is not centered in the tab. It will be above or below center. 
BW 

Correct, I noted that. It was lower-than-center on the passenger side, as shown earlier, above - and it is higher-than-center on the driver's side. Photo below -
Back to Top
48cj2a View Drop Down
Bantam Trailer Moderator
Bantam Trailer Moderator
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 22 July 2005
Location: Central, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 4521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr. 2021 at 12:03am
here is another reference on the passenger side of my 48 its definitely higher too.



Edited by 48cj2a - 14 Apr. 2021 at 1:41am
Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
Back to Top
Rus Curtis View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 25 Mar. 2010
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Points: 1733 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr. 2021 at 1:11am
Originally posted by 48cj2a 48cj2a wrote:

here is another reference on the passenger side of my 48 its definitely higher too.


I had to remove everything after .jpg to get it to display.  I think that may be caused by the ";" at the end.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
1954 CJ3B
Bantam T3-C
Back to Top
48cj2a View Drop Down
Bantam Trailer Moderator
Bantam Trailer Moderator
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 22 July 2005
Location: Central, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 4521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr. 2021 at 1:46am
Originally posted by Rus Curtis Rus Curtis wrote:

Originally posted by 48cj2a 48cj2a wrote:

here is another reference on the passenger side of my 48 its definitely higher too.


I had to remove everything after .jpg to get it to display.  I think that may be caused by the ";" at the end.

Not sure where that ; came from but I edited it. I've not been able to post pictures for quite a while with [img][/img] text, so I've been posting the url syntax directly.
Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
Back to Top
Vintage Don View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 Sep. 2020
Location: Medina, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr. 2021 at 1:50am
Here's a close-up of 48cj2a's photo -


Back to Top
Joe Friday View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 26 Dec. 2010
Location: Jeep Central
Status: Offline
Points: 3654 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr. 2021 at 4:28am
For clarification, my use of the term spot welded meant resistance welded.

Neither the American Central or Willys produced bodies 'puddle welded' that hole.
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 9648 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr. 2021 at 5:40am
  I think I found the purpose of that tab. The stamping / forming / folding process that made the cowl side panel with the fender extension as part of it left a V-shaped notch in both the body and the fender extension. The tab, you will notice, is spot (resistance) welded to the extension and to the body. It covers the V notch and adds strength to the extension. But the hole is still a question. I wonder if, when ACM was looking for something to use or to design a part, they found that this little strap shaped piece was left over from another stamping operation, so they used it rather than design and make another part and scrapping this one.
BW
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
Vintage Don View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 Sep. 2020
Location: Medina, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 10:39pm
Time for the next two holes, then. Actually, it's FOUR holes - because the same two holes exist on the other side, too. (that's one of the things that makes me wonder - when I see symetry like that...).

These are on the upper rear tub, above the wheel opening. One goes through into the wheel housing, the other opens into the rear passenger area.

Weld 'em up???



Thanks!



Edited by Vintage Don - 25 Apr. 2021 at 10:40pm
Back to Top
48cj2a View Drop Down
Bantam Trailer Moderator
Bantam Trailer Moderator
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 22 July 2005
Location: Central, IL
Status: Offline
Points: 4521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 48cj2a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr. 2021 at 10:48pm
Not present on my 48.



Edited by 48cj2a - 25 Apr. 2021 at 10:50pm
Art C USAF (Retired)

47 CJ2A #134955 Project
48 CJ2A #206759
62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900
45 T3-C #191 Project
http://www.bantamt3c.com
http://www.48cj2a.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2022 Web Wiz Ltd.