Play "What's this hole for?" with me... |
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Vintage Don
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2020 Location: Medina, OH Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Thanks, Joe.
I'm just finishing up replacing a sizeable chunk of the outer tub, below the passenger door ahead of the rear wheel opening. I'll post that adventure a little later, when I get some paint on there to be able to say "it's done." So here's a "teaser," haha - But this brings me to my next "hole question." The next sheetmetal repair will be replacing the little "steps" or front fender extensions. Mine are swiss cheese. I've bought the replacement pieces, looked like a better path than fabrication from scratch. Here's that situation - showing what remains of the original, and the replacement piece - So my question is regarding the hole at the very rear, on the little tab that comes off the back. It is present on both sides of mine - and I'm fairly sure I can see it on other Jeeps that are in good shape or restored. Which makes me think it probably "belongs there." But it is NOT pre-drilled on the re-pop, which could mean it's not supposed to be there, or maybe only certain years have it. It doesn't seem to serve any purpose. Here (next photo) I have stuck a piece of paper behind it so you can better see what I'm talking about. Does it belong, and I should drill it into the replacement piece? Does it serve any purpose? Thanks! |
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SlaterDoc
Member Joined: 03 Mar. 2020 Location: Catskills, NY Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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Don, from my understanding that hole on that tab is for either bolting or plug welding. However, I've seen that tab behind the side panel, not in front on a number of jeeps! Walck's sells the cowl panels with that tab spot welded on the out side! So, I assume that is the correct position even though I'm going the other way! To me, it just looks better hidden behind! |
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Once a Navy man, always a Navy man!
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Vintage Don
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2020 Location: Medina, OH Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Thanks for your thoughts. Interesting, I never focused on a vehicle where this tab went to the inside. I guess you would have to somehow cut a slot in the cowl side to accomplish that. As you mentioned, the re-pops certainty seem to expect it to be mounted with the tab on the outside of the cowl. (But they come without the hole). These 'steps" were originally made as part of the big cowl stamping - it's obvious that it started as a single piece of steel, with the 90 degree brake at the bottom to form the step. So they had to choose to add that little tab. As a reinforcement? But the fundamental question remains - is it supposed to have that HOLE in it? (And the secondary question that results - what's it for? haha). It was clearly there on mine, on both sides. And no inner hole to make it possible to stick a bolt through it....
Edited by Vintage Don - 13 Apr. 2021 at 1:54pm |
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RSR_MK
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Location: Cabool Mo Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Don, I looked at a few this morning and I’m pretty sure they all have a plug weld in that hole.
I was fairly sure till I looked at the bad side of my wood cutting jeep. I don’t think the tab would still be there without a plug weld. Mike |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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Well, I hate to be a grouch, but -
I’ve never seen an MB, a CJ2-A, a CJ3A, an M38 or a CJ3B that did not have that tab, or a hole in it, or a plug weld in the hole, or the tab inside. I don’t know its purpose but it’s always there, so if you want a correct restoration it needs to be there. If you don’t care about “correct” and think it looks bad, cut it off. On the MB and M38, the lower leg of the ax handle bracket goes through that hole. BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3191 |
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Just a matter for the record, MD Juan CJ-2A tubs do not have that hole and the tab is outside the step secured by a couple of spotwelds.
...so, IF Bruce is correct about his tab configuration (and I would bet my bottom dollar he IS correct), THEN it follows that this would be a very easy way to spot a repop tub because that is what Ol' Red is...a MD Juan repop. Alert the Jeep police! |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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Joe Friday
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 26 Dec. 2010 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
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Don, the tab with the hole is spot welded on. If I can find a part number for the cowl piece, I can look for the tooling diagram. Meanwhile Bruce W is SPOT (welded) ON in this case.
Don't look at a GPW as reference... I'm embarrassed to say I didn't learn till recently that the step on the Ford produced GPW bodies was welded on as a separate part (without hole), so that may be why the cheap repro's don't have it.
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Vintage Don
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2020 Location: Medina, OH Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Nope, that's not being a grouch at all - that's answering my question! Haha.. And I thank you for that. And I DO care about what is correct - which is why I'm asking the question, of course. So on my re-pop patch piece, I will be drilling that hole, and putting everything back exactly like it was built. (So that Joe Friday doesn't bust me...) I was talking to Carl Walck this morning too - and he agrees that the tab is always there, and always has the hole - which he has seen filled with a weld puddle but usually not.
Edited by Vintage Don - 13 Apr. 2021 at 6:12pm |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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If you have a tab with no hole, as I had on Tiny’s jeep (The tab was torn off and gone, I had to make one) you’ll probably find that the hole is not centered in the tab. It will be above or below center.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Vintage Don
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2020 Location: Medina, OH Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Correct, I noted that. It was lower-than-center on the passenger side, as shown earlier, above - and it is higher-than-center on the driver's side. Photo below - |
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48cj2a
Bantam Trailer Moderator Sponsor Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Central, IL Status: Offline Points: 4521 |
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here is another reference on the passenger side of my 48 its definitely higher too.
Edited by 48cj2a - 14 Apr. 2021 at 1:41am |
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Art C USAF (Retired)
47 CJ2A #134955 Project 48 CJ2A #206759 62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900 45 T3-C #191 Project http://www.bantamt3c.com http://www.48cj2a.com |
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Rus Curtis
Member Joined: 25 Mar. 2010 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1733 |
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I had to remove everything after .jpg to get it to display. I think that may be caused by the ";" at the end.
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Rus Curtis
Alabama 1954 CJ3B Bantam T3-C |
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48cj2a
Bantam Trailer Moderator Sponsor Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Central, IL Status: Offline Points: 4521 |
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Not sure where that ; came from but I edited it. I've not been able to post pictures for quite a while with [img][/img] text, so I've been posting the url syntax directly.
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Art C USAF (Retired)
47 CJ2A #134955 Project 48 CJ2A #206759 62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900 45 T3-C #191 Project http://www.bantamt3c.com http://www.48cj2a.com |
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Vintage Don
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2020 Location: Medina, OH Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Here's a close-up of 48cj2a's photo -
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Joe Friday
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 26 Dec. 2010 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 3654 |
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For clarification, my use of the term spot welded meant resistance welded.
Neither the American Central or Willys produced bodies 'puddle welded' that hole.
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
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I think I found the purpose of that tab. The stamping / forming / folding process that made the cowl side panel with the fender extension as part of it left a V-shaped notch in both the body and the fender extension. The tab, you will notice, is spot (resistance) welded to the extension and to the body. It covers the V notch and adds strength to the extension. But the hole is still a question. I wonder if, when ACM was looking for something to use or to design a part, they found that this little strap shaped piece was left over from another stamping operation, so they used it rather than design and make another part and scrapping this one.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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Vintage Don
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 10 Sep. 2020 Location: Medina, OH Status: Offline Points: 413 |
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Time for the next two holes, then. Actually, it's FOUR holes - because the same two holes exist on the other side, too. (that's one of the things that makes me wonder - when I see symetry like that...).
These are on the upper rear tub, above the wheel opening. One goes through into the wheel housing, the other opens into the rear passenger area. Weld 'em up??? Thanks! Edited by Vintage Don - 25 Apr. 2021 at 10:40pm |
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48cj2a
Bantam Trailer Moderator Sponsor Member Joined: 22 July 2005 Location: Central, IL Status: Offline Points: 4521 |
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Not present on my 48.
Edited by 48cj2a - 25 Apr. 2021 at 10:50pm |
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Art C USAF (Retired)
47 CJ2A #134955 Project 48 CJ2A #206759 62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900 45 T3-C #191 Project http://www.bantamt3c.com http://www.48cj2a.com |
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