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Play "What's this hole for?" with me...

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Vintage Don View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 9:18pm

[/QUOTE]

The hat channel is not drilled through on yours, right?   But the bracket and floor are drilled?  Maybe a batch of hat channels came in without the holes, so the assembly line crew said “ferk it” and let it go.
[/QUOTE]

My hat channel has never had a hole. I don't know if the floor ever did, or not. That's the original question.....

The suspicion is that the early 46's did not have this - that the hole in the foot of the gusset served some purpose during assembly that we don't know about, perhaps. And that later on, they chose to drill it the rest of the way through and put a bolt in it.

I have been trying to learn if the hole was only in the gusset, or if it also penetrated the floor sheetmetal. Or not.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch 1960 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 10:11pm
Just spitballing here, as the holes and the bolts seemed to come and go during the course of production, but often randomly in the production sequence, especially with the early examples.

Perhaps the original plans were to have holes separately drilled in the floor, the hat channel, and the bracket, for the “strainer bolt”.  Getting them lined up prior to assembly would be tough, what with drilling all three separately, and then trying to line up all the parts for welding into a shell, and having the holes all line up properly.  The sides/brackets/floor/hat channel mock up for final welding likely had some fairly loose tolerances going on, relative to each other, to get everything to come together properly.

Drilling the hole from above, after assembly of the tub, through the existing hole in the bracket, would be tough, as one can’t easily get a straight shot at it with the bracket and the tub sides in the way.

Drilling the hole, to match the existing hole in the bracket, would be very difficult from below.  While nothing would be in the way, one would be drilling the hole “blind” to the existing hole in the bracket.

So the question is, how important was the bolt there, and how much of an effort, during production of the tubs, did one want to make to get the holes drilled or properly lined up?  Maybe ACM and Willys went back and forth on the issue, as production difficulties in getting it done, bumped up against feedback from the field, as to the need for it.   The fact that the bolt is called a “strainer bolt”, and, in general, that later production more often seemed to have the bolt installed, suggests that, over time, it was decided that the bolt was necessary to support the “strain” put on the hat channel and the tub at that spot.  Later parts lists also seemed to more consistently list that bolt assembly for the CJ, suggesting that it was deemed more necessary, as time went on.

I am totally taking a guess here, but I think that getting that bolt hole drilled and installing the bolt was a bit of a bugger to get done.  But, over time, it was decided that it needed to be done.  On the early Jeeps, it was done, but not always done, as feedback from the field said the area was a weak spot.  Only later did the installation of the bolt get formalized and listed in the documentation.  On early examples, it may have even been an informal dealer service “fix”, as the Jeeps came in for servicing.  That some got the “fix”, and others did not, in rather random production sequence, could be accounted for by this.  In the end, it looks like the tub is supposed to get the bolt if it is drilled for it, but not get the bolt if it is not drilled for it.  It appears that either way is correct, depending on whether the tub and hat channel are drilled for the bolt or not.

Your mileage may vary...


Edited by Dutch 1960 - 11 May 2021 at 10:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 10:43pm
I'm going to amend my earlier statement and say that while my 47 jeep did not have a hole in the floor, my 48 jeep DOES have a hole and a bolt. It even has the little sheet metal locking nut still on- I don't think these bolts have ever been removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BUTA46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 6:50am
I think the one of my Jeeps that still works has had a life similar to your Jeep’s. My green one (originally black) hasn’t been washed in twenty three years of trail rides because the dirt is holding the aftermarket undercoating onto the paint which keeps the Bondo from falling off what little sheet metal is left. I bought it barely running in 1997, with an MB summer top and bows and a repro M38 tailgate trying to be an Army Jeep,  … with those chrome headlight rings.
Anyway this hole, driver side:


Poison Icky from the wheel well.


 Talked to the nearby Military Jeep expert and best guess is seat belt attempt, Bubba, Inc.

The two red ones in the garage look like this


And here’s the inside of the still red one.


 Does not look like any of mine had a hole through the floor under the Open hole, but since the floor isn’t actually there anymore…?? Can’t get to the sandblasted one yet. 
The green one has been on and off the road for most of its days and, like I said, I think it’s life story would be pretty similar to your Jeep’s. The blasted red one was driven by a little old lady (yeah, I know) in Connecticut to deliver eggs until she had a wreck and bent the frame. So it sat unmolested by Bubba’s Boys. The red one became a snow plow truck in Maine.
Good luck and Great job filling those randoms!
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46 CJ2A #51119.   “Rock Sand”
46 CJ2A #80102.   “Marilyn Jean”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 10:30am
Thanks for these helpful posts, gents! Dutch, your theory makes a lot of sense, and may well be the explanation of what we're seeing.

BUTA46, that stop rest bracket you showed me there - from a side view, is that shaped like this?



I wasn't sure if it comes to a peak in the middle like this one, from your photo. (I know it has a hole through it for a bolt into the back of the seat frame.)


Edited by Vintage Don - 12 May 2021 at 10:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BUTA46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 1:37pm

Better picture from inboard looking left




Edited by BUTA46 - 12 May 2021 at 1:40pm
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46 CJ2A #73349   “Poison Icky”
46 CJ2A #51119.   “Rock Sand”
46 CJ2A #80102.   “Marilyn Jean”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BUTA46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 2:21pm
Trying a closeup 




Back to the odd shaped hole on the drivers rear fender well, here’s a shot of what Bubba, Inc gave me to keep my wife in the passenger seat. Assuming a similar setup on the driver side with a good sized fender washer or two on the outside. Looking at the rust holes in the blasted tub at the same location, I’d say it wasn’t long before Bubba buckled his fancy seat belt rig and pulled the fender washers right through the sheet metal. Out came the rat tail file, the pliers and some patch stuff to cover up the hole that would spray water and rocks into the drivers hip pocket. My thoughts anyway.


BUTA- Back Up Try Again

46 CJ2A #73349   “Poison Icky”
46 CJ2A #51119.   “Rock Sand”
46 CJ2A #80102.   “Marilyn Jean”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BUTA46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 2:49pm
And I must amend my earlier about the bolt holes in the cowl support area. Mine are all EC and the two red ones do indeed have bolts that go all the way though the hat channels. The green one… the hole in the support piece is there but the floor and hat channel cannot be examined because they’re gone.
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46 CJ2A #73349   “Poison Icky”
46 CJ2A #51119.   “Rock Sand”
46 CJ2A #80102.   “Marilyn Jean”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2021 at 10:33pm
Hey, BUTA46, thanks very much for the additional photos! Very helpful! I can fabricate that now, with my passenger side for a pattern.

As far as that odd-shaped hole (already patched up) on mine - Bubba carved that hole for a support bracket for a driver seat. His seat frame (way too long) had passed through that hole and met a vertical bracket inside the wheel opening (!). I guess it worked ok, but I'm putting it all back to stock.

Today's adventure was on the driver's floorpan...

Yes, it looks like hell in there, but it's fundamentally sound metal - just some rot above the hat channels.



My policy is always to remove the minimum possible and still end up with a sound floor. 

So the first step was to draw out the preliminary cuts (I can always cut farther if necessarily). That's my chalk lines. Also drew black lines (more permanent marker) to help locate that body mount attachment bolt on the new steel when it gets butt-welded in place.



And I got some initial "exploratory surgery" cuts done, and ran out of time today. But the hat channels look fine. To be continued.





Edited by Vintage Don - 12 May 2021 at 10:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 10:42am
Hi Don,

I notice your jeep is early enough that it has the tool indents. Could you please show a photo of the metal brace on the inside of the indents from the bottom of the tub opening to the inside of the indents themselves? It would help me in fabricating one for my new indents. Thanks
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Forgive me if I don't return the "jeep wave", I need both hands on the wheel!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 10:56am
Originally posted by otto otto wrote:

Hi Don,

I notice your jeep is early enough that it has the tool indents. Could you please show a photo of the metal brace on the inside of the indents from the bottom of the tub opening to the inside of the indents themselves? It would help me in fabricating one for my new indents. Thanks

There's not really much there in the way of braces. Here's what I'm seeing, if I'm understanding correctly what you want to see -



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 10:58am
Yes, exactly. Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vintage Don Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 11:05am
Do you need detail shots or dimensions on any of it? Just say the word. I think it's all original, not the most outstanding workmanship I've ever seen! Haha






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 11:55am
These shots are perfect, thanks. I can guess on dimensions, don't think it's that vital. Between the M38 photos and yours, I can make it happen.

And yes, the craftmanship there is not the highest level I've seen, so exceeding the low bar should be easy!Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 19Cargo42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 12:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch 1960 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 1:18pm
John, you are showing the brace used for the non-indented tubs, and also used on the other side of the tub from the indented side.

For the indented side, just that small plate is used, and the fuel gauge wire runs behind it before going over to the top of the fuel tank.

The other piece shown in the photos, further down and a bit to the back, is the bracket that holds the outer end of the fuel tank hold down strap.


Edited by Dutch 1960 - 13 May 2021 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 19Cargo42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 2:51pm
Thanks for that correction, much appreciated. (This is one of the downsides of having my Jeep in CO and me in MA. It makes for a long trip to the garage to check things!)

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 3:02pm
This thread has been very interesting and helpful! I solved two problems I didn't even know I had!😳 The mysterious hole to nowhere in the floor/hat channel and the hole in the drivers wheel well. Never knew a bolt went into the seat frame. Now it does! Thanks 
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