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Pope's 1949 CJ3A - 4.3L, SM465, Dana 18 Swap

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Pope891 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 Aug. 2019 at 7:46pm


Look what followed me home today...This thing came with a ton of cool accessories/extras.  The engine is a Ford 170, which I know nothing about, but it looks like the install was actually done pretty cleanly.  The steer box is huge.  This CJ spent it's life in CO, which explains why the tub is in such good condition.  The entire tub was resurfaced using Bondo, which, while may have prevented corrosion at first, is starting to fail.  Oh well.  At least I have a tub in 90% condition!  11' brakes on an old MB axle I think.  Drop down pedals.  Custom rear seat.  Hubs (I have no idea who makes these).  I think the roll bar looks too vintage, so I might remove it.  The rear bumper has GOT to go.  New NDTs and original rims are in the mix too.

More to come soon.  I'm just trying to figure out where to start!



































Edited by Pope891 - 11 Oct. 2019 at 3:55pm
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otto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug. 2019 at 8:02pm
My old Econoline van has a 170 Ford six, how does it fit?
47 CJ2A
48 CJ2A
Forgive me if I don't return the "jeep wave", I need both hands on the wheel!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug. 2019 at 8:05pm
You can see the firewall was notched.  The welding was actually done pretty well.  Almost looks stock.  If I don't stick with this engine, I'm considering a 4.3L chevy.  But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...
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Rich M. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug. 2019 at 8:14pm
Cool! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flattiesrule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep. 2019 at 3:38pm
I'd love to see how they fabricated the hanging pedal setup.
'47 cj2a
'76 cj7
'01 cherokee sport
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep. 2019 at 9:35pm
I used the same M/C-C/C set up on mine years ago.  around 1965 GMC era ???
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2019 at 8:26am
Otto - See the picture below for the notch in the firewall.  Whoever did this work made it look pretty good.  


Flattiesrule - here is a photo of the hanging pedal setup.  I wonder where this came from?  OEM from another truck or maybe an aftermarket piece?


JeepsterJim - based on the fact that I already have a dropped pedal setup, I'm thinking I will stick with a hydraulic clutch provided I replace this old, rusty, unknown master cylinder.  I have a "thing" for good brakes.

Next up - I'm picking up a 4.3L today for a very reasonable price.  Now the big question is; what about the transmission?  Should I keep the T90 or maybe move to a sm465 like Jpet has done?  I'm leaning to the latter because the sm465 is basically bombproof.  But then I need to buy an adapter.  Or maybe I should stick with the T90 and buy an overdrive...heck, I don't know.

Steering is also another concern.  I seem to remember that Jpet had to fabricate some funky steering to make this 4.3L work. 

Any input from the field would be welcome and appreciated!  



Edited by Pope891 - 02 Sep. 2019 at 8:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2019 at 11:26am
JeepsterJim - based on the fact that I already have a dropped pedal setup, I'm thinking I will stick with a hydraulic clutch provided I replace this old, rusty, unknown master cylinder.  I have a "thing" for good brakes

I was referring to the master cylinder brake/clutch  set up.  It's what I used on mine back in the late '60's.   If memory is correct, mid-60's? Chevy and GM trucks used that set up.  With today's compact master cylinders, both brake and clutch, you could easily chance out to a dual   reservoir M/C for safety. Plus keep the hydraulic clutch M/C.

Advanced Adapters came out with a swing pedal kit that used this style M/C.
 


Edited by jeepsterjim - 02 Sep. 2019 at 11:28am
Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CJ2A-CT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep. 2019 at 10:09pm
great looking rig, congrats
46 CJ2a 22786------Rebuilding "Briar Rabbit" with Son-in-law, Jason
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep. 2019 at 9:21am
Congrats David! Thumbs Up Looks fun, I bet it will be a blast to drive!
Ship of Theseus - As years go by wooden parts begin to rot and are replaced by new. After a century, all of the parts have been replaced. Is the "restored" ship still the same object as the original?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep. 2019 at 9:25am
Careful GGordon - I might recruit you for assistance when I get stuck in the middle of this build!

I picked up a 4.3L engine yesterday for a very reasonable price.  It's from 2002 with apparently 52k miles.  So that means I'm going fuel injection, which also means I will likely need to spend money on a wiring harness that takes into account a manual transmission.  First things first.  I need to get the body off, clean the frame and do body work.  More to come soon...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep. 2019 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Pope891 Pope891 wrote:

Careful GGordon - I might recruit you for assistance when I get stuck in the middle of this build!

I picked up a 4.3L engine yesterday for a very reasonable price.  It's from 2002 with apparently 52k miles.  So that means I'm going fuel injection, which also means I will likely need to spend money on a wiring harness that takes into account a manual transmission.  First things first.  I need to get the body off, clean the frame and do body work.  More to come soon...


It would be my pleasure Wink (Disclaimer) that 4.3 makes me nervous! I have always messed with flat heads, carburetors, points and generators - Never really played with the new stuff LOL Can't wait to see more, the body looks good from the pictures... Inside to tool box looks great!
Ship of Theseus - As years go by wooden parts begin to rot and are replaced by new. After a century, all of the parts have been replaced. Is the "restored" ship still the same object as the original?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep. 2019 at 10:00am
Tub is off.  Old Ford 170 engine extracted....and yes, I have a small garage.  Maybe I need to build a barn....

The tub is in great shape.  A few repairs will be required.  Now I need to learn how to weld.


Can't rotate the image...but you get the idea.

The frame is in good shape.  You will notice that the front cross member has been removed and an angle has been welded in.  I will need to figure out what to do there a little later.  

I will also be removing these axles and installing some new ones shortly.  Anybody need some axles with 11" drums?  I will be posting these on the For Sale forum soon.







Next steps: 
1) Continue to strip down the frame
2) Replace axles.  I got a reasonable price on some Herm rebuilt axles from Watson's Jeep Salvage in NC.  I also picked up a rebuilt SM465 with a D18 adapter and a rebuilt D18.  So less work for me!
3) Remove the ugly front and rear bumpers
4) Start thinking about engine mounts,etc

This should be an adventure.  This is my first build, so any comments and pointers are welcome.  I'm trying to capitalize on the amount of knowledge and experience in this forum.  After all, it will save me time and frustration in the end.  In truth, this build is inspired by a number of folks on this forum.  Jpet's build thread is acting as a general guide.  

I'd like to keep this CJ looking fairly stock from 20 feet away.  More to come soon.



Edited by Pope891 - 29 Sep. 2019 at 10:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep. 2019 at 12:12pm
You have a good start,have fun with your build and keep posting updates and pictures.

Giles
1946 cj2a 59108
1998 Jeep Cherokee 2 doors
2016 Jeep Cherokee TrailHawk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct. 2019 at 3:54pm
I almost have all the parts to start installing the drivetrain.  Next comes the tricky part...mockups.  Thus far I noticed that the stock manifold on the driver's side is quite close to the bellhousing.  My bellhousing is designed for the old school mechanical clutch.  Initially, I thought I was going to purchase Advanced Adapter's hydraulic clutch retrofit system, but looking at how tight these clearances are, I don't think that will fit.  Besides, I could spend that money on a quality hydraulic throwout bearing instead.  That way, I have tons of space and less fiddling with clutch linkages, etc.  I still have time to figure that out.

In the meantime, I'm waiting on a few parts to start assembling the drivetrain and doing mockups for engine placement, tub placement and steering.  More to come next week.

Sorry for the sideways pictures, but I can't figure out how to correct that on the forum.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 5:16pm
Here is the SM465 and Dana 18 married together.  Nice tight fit.  I love how the shifters are practically in stock position so I won't need to trim the tub too much.  I had to shave a little bit off of both the shifter bracketry of the Dana 18 and the ribbing on the SM465 to make it fit together.  That fact was not mentioned in the instructions, but that's ok.  This adapter came from Advance Adapters and was originally purchased by a previous owner via Herm the Overdrive guy.  It was purchased back in 2012 but never installed!  And no, I will not be leaving the shifters painted peppermint patty green.

This weekend I will be dropping the drivetrain into the frame and trying to stuff everything under the hood.  Should be fun.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct. 2019 at 6:40pm
I will bring the beers 🍺 Thumbs Up
Ship of Theseus - As years go by wooden parts begin to rot and are replaced by new. After a century, all of the parts have been replaced. Is the "restored" ship still the same object as the original?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct. 2019 at 5:06pm
This last weekend was fun.  Ggordon came over and a few friends helped me set the engine in place.  It's still a rough engine placement, but at least it gives me an idea of how the exhaust, steering, clutch and frame will all need to fit together.  Next steps are motor mounts.  Thanks GGordon for helping out!









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