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Pope's 1949 CJ3A - 4.3L, SM465, Dana 18 Swap

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Ol' Unreliable View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct. 2019 at 12:10am
Progress!  YAY!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct. 2019 at 9:09am
Hey Dave, thanks for the shout out! LOL It was a fun afternoon, and I'm always happy to help.... Those Novak motor mounts you got are awesome. Keep us posted on progress, let me know when it's time to wire that baby up!
Ship of Theseus - As years go by wooden parts begin to rot and are replaced by new. After a century, all of the parts have been replaced. Is the "restored" ship still the same object as the original?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrandpasOld50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct. 2019 at 6:02pm
Pope, are you planning a body lift to clear the intake or is the motor sitting low enough to clear the hood? Would you recommend the Novak motor mounts? Why did you settle on the sm465 over the t90?

Edited by GrandpasOld50 - 28 Oct. 2019 at 6:07pm
'50 3a with f-head motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct. 2019 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by GrandpasOld50 GrandpasOld50 wrote:

Pope, are you planning a body lift to clear the intake or is the motor sitting low enough to clear the hood? Would you recommend the Novak motor mounts? Why did you settle on the sm465 over the t90?

I will try and keep the body at stock height.  Others have done the same, so I'm going to make every effort to keep this a "sleeper".

Motor Mounts  -more to come on those.  So far, they are very versatile and easy to manipulate, but I haven't actually placed the engine permanently.  I think they are worth the investment.  

SM465 - looking at Jpet's build of BamBam, Metcalf's build of Rango and another CJ called Rojo, larger tranmissions like the SM465 seemed like a "do-able" swap.  Why?  200hp from a 4.3L Chevy will put even more strain on a trans that is known to pop out of 2nd.  Besides, I found a transmission with the Advance Adapters shaft already installed!  That's money I don't need to spend and time I don't need to invest.  

If I am doing a frame-off restoration/restomod project, I want to build it the way I want it and no shortcuts or regrets.  That means heavy duty.  And yes, there will have to be some items that I will need to "settle" on for budgetary reasons or items beyond my skill level.

To be clear, this is my first swap....actually my first big project.  I am diving in head first.  I'm no mechanic, welder or machinist.  My skill level is quite average and I'm learning as I go.  Just like any endeavor, it's all about your attitude.  I can do this!  (all together now!)


Edited by Pope891 - 28 Oct. 2019 at 8:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct. 2019 at 8:19pm
An update on axles.  I purchased these rebuilt axles on this forum through Watson's Jeep Salvage in NC.  Thank you!  They were built by Herm for a previous owner but never installed.  The rear is a Dana 44 with full floating axles (27 splines I think?  Haven't checked yet) with a Powr-Lok differential, 5.38 gears and disc brakes.  The front is a Dana 27 with a Powr-Lok and disc brakes.  




If you read Herm's website, stock wheels will not fit over disc brake conversations on these axles.  This "brakes" my heart because I was hoping to install NDT tires.  ...And we need skinny wheels for skinny tires.  Also, I needed wheels with a 4.25 center bore.  That means more money...The chrome wheels are for sale BTW.  


Well wouldn't you know it, I found a pair of old, rusty, crusty wheels on Facebook...for FREE.  And they fit perfectly!!  They are 16".  I don't know the width yet because I need to remove the 40 year old tires first.  I think they look pretty mean.  Very retro, but still cool....and angry.


For those considering a disc brake conversation, I will post the backspacing on these wheels once I remove the tires.  Information like that needs to be published for all to see.  **Update** these wheels are 16" x 9".  Pretty wide.




Edited by Pope891 - 30 Oct. 2019 at 6:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrandpasOld50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct. 2019 at 10:09am
All very good points.  Thank you.  
'50 3a with f-head motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct. 2019 at 9:36pm
Those rusty wheels look like Jackmans.  I really wanted a set of those back in the '70s!  I ended up buying a set of Empco Gunspokes and they rusted away just like that.  Ohio winters are rough on steel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 1:53am
You can run disc brakes with original wheels using a 1” spacer.  That’s my setup on all 4 corners.  👍🏼
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 5:32am
Pope, was reading through the thread on your "49". Looks like a neat build. 
The Falcon motor brings back memories. In the late sixties we had a 42 GPW with a 170 Comet engine in it. Your PO did a much nicer job on yours than I did on mine. They were (are) great engines in my opinion. Pretty spunky. The carb didn't play well at altitude but it did make it to the top of Mt Antero 50 years ago. 
When we built Rojo a couple of years ago we chose the same engine family that you have. This is an excellent choice. Plenty of low end torque (500 rpm) and when coupled with a "granny tranny" is a great trail Jeep. 
A few things you have undoubtedly seen by now is hood clearance and ground clearance. We kept the engine as high as we could and the drivetrain as level as we could. The "Vortec" series has a relatively high intake so the engine hangs down quite a bit. They also have a deep sump pan. Like the deep pan for when you"re on your tail on an incline but it is low. We reinforced the bottom of the pan. The T 18 we used is bullet proof as you say but once again hangs pretty low. I don't care for body lifts and with stock springs you need to choose your "line" through the rocks carefully. 
Looking forward to your build thread. 

Fuzz

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 6:35am
Originally posted by Rick G Rick G wrote:

You can run disc brakes with original wheels using a 1” spacer.  That’s my setup on all 4 corners.  👍🏼

Thanks Rick.  If I find these huge 16"x 9" wheels are too wide, I might go that route.  I would still love to run NDTs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct. 2019 at 6:37am
Originally posted by snave snave wrote:

Pope, was reading through the thread on your "49". Looks like a neat build. 
The Falcon motor brings back memories. In the late sixties we had a 42 GPW with a 170 Comet engine in it. Your PO did a much nicer job on yours than I did on mine. They were (are) great engines in my opinion. Pretty spunky. The carb didn't play well at altitude but it did make it to the top of Mt Antero 50 years ago. 
When we built Rojo a couple of years ago we chose the same engine family that you have. This is an excellent choice. Plenty of low end torque (500 rpm) and when coupled with a "granny tranny" is a great trail Jeep. 
A few things you have undoubtedly seen by now is hood clearance and ground clearance. We kept the engine as high as we could and the drivetrain as level as we could. The "Vortec" series has a relatively high intake so the engine hangs down quite a bit. They also have a deep sump pan. Like the deep pan for when you"re on your tail on an incline but it is low. We reinforced the bottom of the pan. The T 18 we used is bullet proof as you say but once again hangs pretty low. I don't care for body lifts and with stock springs you need to choose your "line" through the rocks carefully. 
Looking forward to your build thread. 

Fuzz


Fuzz - any input you can offer along the way will be greatly appreciated!  Yes, the 4.3 is tall.  And my Dana 18 hangs down a bit lower than I would like.  I might remove the parking brake someday for extra clearance.  But for now, let's just get this thing running.  Thanks for your note.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov. 2019 at 12:51pm
For those of you considering the same swap, take the picture below into consideration.  The Chevy hydraulic clutch slave cylinder and exhaust manifold are occupying the same space.  This manifold came from an S10 Blazer and I believe all trucks with this engine used the same manifold.  I anticipated this issue, but I wanted to document this fact for anyone collecting parts for this type of build.  In addition, I somehow need to fit the steering around this space.  Herm's kit "should" work.  

I have a different manifold in the mail that dumps "down" and not "back".  Hopefully that will solve this issue.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeepsterjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov. 2019 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Pope891 Pope891 wrote:

For those of you considering the same swap, take the picture below into consideration.  The Chevy hydraulic clutch slave cylinder and exhaust manifold are occupying the same space.  This manifold came from an S10 Blazer and I believe all trucks with this engine used the same manifold.  I anticipated this issue, but I wanted to document this fact for anyone collecting parts for this type of build.  In addition, I somehow need to fit the steering around this space.  Herm's kit "should" work.  

I have a different manifold in the mail that dumps "down" and not "back".  Hopefully that will solve this issue.


Use a push style slave cyld.  it mounts on the X-fer case and works well.
something like this one below.

Push Type Slave Cylinder w/ Push Rod Kit

Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov. 2019 at 7:28pm
Interesting.  I think Fuzz has the same rig on Rojo, yes?

  I was planning on using an entirely Chevy clutch system to minimize error in installation.  Things like throw length, bore diameter, etc seem like a great way to waste multiple weekends/nights trying to troubleshoot a half cocked install.  I'm not that bright or experienced.  Just your average Joe putting a project together.  

Have a great weekend!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov. 2019 at 3:47pm
Pope, yes we used basically the same style from Speedway on our clutch throw out system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec. 2019 at 8:00am
For the past few weeks I have been gathering parts.  Everything was on hold until I received steering components from Herm.  I also needed a different exhaust manifold that fit and a Ford steering box.

Here is the tricky part.


I will need to slightly modify Herm's bracket, then I think I might need a double U joint from Borgeson that will "turn the corner" around the manifold.


This manifold should work.  I just need to redrill the mounting holes a bit to fit the block.  I believe this manifold came from a early '90's Chevy Astro.

You will notice that my crossmember isn't in the pictures.  The previous owner had a piece of angle iron welded as a crossmember, so I am replacing it with 3" tube.  This will also give me more space for my radiator and steering box.

Also bought a MIG welder for a decent price.  I finally realized you can't do a project like this without learning how to weld.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 9:35am
Since Christmas I've been collecting parts, which slowed down work in January.

This is the test fit of the custom crossmember.  It's my first real fabrication job, which I'm pretty proud of.  I plan to reinforce it a bit and clean up sharp edges, etc.  That SM465 is heavy!  The crossmember will also support the Dana 18 t-case from any twisting under load.  Down the road, a skid plate will be added.

Next: I need to remove a ton of bondo from the body before it gets sandblasted.  That will be dirty work.  Once that is done, frame gets painted and the body gets the hat channels repaired, then everything painted.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 1:37pm
Look'n Good!! I don't know much about fabrication, but those welds look pretty darn good from here Thumbs Up
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