Forum Home Forum Home > CJ-2A Discussion Area > Tech Questions and Answers
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - positive camber issue
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

positive camber issue

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
likeg View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan. 2018
Location: Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote likeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: positive camber issue
    Posted: 12 Feb. 2020 at 1:37am
I have a positive camber issue in the left front on my 46. The jeep had a case of the leans and I inserted a 1 1/2 inch block on the right side to even it out. The 1 1/2 is actually to much as the front right is slightly higher on the left (that is until I sit in it). Since inserting the block the jeep developed a positive camber issue on the left side. There was no camber issue before inserting the block. In order to insert the block I removed an angled caster shim from the right front. Thus far I have only driven the jeep around the block once, but it steered much better than it did, but that could be due to several factors.
Thus far I have made the following modification or replacements to the steering components.

1. added block to address lean issue.
2. installed ford reverse box with herms bracket.
3. Installed tilt column with borgenson joints
3. Replaced king pin bearings and races.
4. Checked, cleaned, greased front axles.
5. Converted to 11" drum brakes

I added the block before addressing the king pin issues and noticed the camber problem. Then i replaced the king bearings, races and adjusted the knuckle drag with shims. No difference in the camber issue. The axle housing and knuckles are in good shape. 

So I am left to believe that the block to correct the lean is causing the issue.  I've been told that this cant be the case, but its the common denominator in the equation. I am going to remove the block and put a 1"  square tube section in place of the block just to see if this changes the positive camber issue. If it does i will fabricate a 1" block to replace the 1 1/2" block. Not sure what else to try, any ideas? 
Back to Top
Bruce W View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: Northeast Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 6292
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2020 at 10:50am
  Stop and think about it - the axle sits flat on the ground and camber angle is measured in relationship to the ground. Camber angle is built into the axle. Nothing you do to the springs or frame can change the camber angle. You could take the rest of the jeep away and leave the front axle alone, sitting on the ground, and the camber angle would not be changed. Something is bent, worn, or mis-assembled. BW 
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
Back to Top
likeg View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan. 2018
Location: Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote likeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2020 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  Stop and think about it - the axle sits flat on the ground and camber angle is measured in relationship to the ground. Camber angle is built into the axle. Nothing you do to the springs or frame can change the camber angle. You could take the rest of the jeep away and leave the front axle alone, sitting on the ground, and the camber angle would not be changed. Something is bent, worn, or mis-assembled. BW 

All logic says you are correct. I have not been able to find anything bent, almost everything was replaced, so that would only leave misassembled. The problem with that is that when I put the block in is when the camber issue began. It did not change after replacing bearing, races, etc. So for sh*ts and giggles I’ll take the block out and see what happens. Logic says no change, but I’ve been fooled by logic before.
Back to Top
Stev View Drop Down
Member
Member

Sponsor Member

Joined: 27 July 2016
Location: Cincinnati
Status: Online
Points: 1653
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2020 at 12:47pm
Check the lower kingpin races mounting points in the axle tubes.  Sometimes they get bent or stretched.  The race should not move around in the hole.  Let us know what you find.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep, 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
Back to Top
jeeper50 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 01 Mar. 2008
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 1870
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb. 2020 at 12:57pm
Are you wheel bearings adjusted properly or do they have some play in them causing the camber issue. Grab the wheel top and bottom and see if you can feel excessive play. 
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


Texan at heart,GA by paycheck

Back to Top
likeg View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan. 2018
Location: Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote likeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2020 at 6:03pm
Haven't had a chance to get back to the project to look for causes of the camber issue, but decided to but a few pictures up in the meantime. It is worse on the left side, at least  worse to me when viewing in person. The toe still needs to be corrected as well. .  
Back to Top
CT48 View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Jan. 2019
Location: 06268
Status: Offline
Points: 31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CT48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2020 at 6:53pm
Positive camber is normal as it's designed that way on every solid front axle vehicle that I know of, and it's needed.

Pics sometimes can appear distorted to the viewer, but I don't see anything wrong.
Back to Top
nofender View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 10 May 2016
Location: Maryland
Status: Offline
Points: 1308
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nofender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2020 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by CT48 CT48 wrote:

Positive camber is normal as it's designed that way on every solid front axle vehicle that I know of, and it's needed.

Pics sometimes can appear distorted to the viewer, but I don't see anything wrong.

I would agree with the above. 

I would also suggest that the angle lessens once the toe is dialed in. The block isn’t a factor in my opinion as well.

Looks like a nice Jeep by the way! 
46 CJ2A rockcrawler
46 CJ2A resto-mod
51 Bantam-ish trailer
68-ish CJ5
50-ish Sterling trailer
15 Grand (Mrs Nofender)
19 Hemi Ram (parts hauler)
Back to Top
squidtone View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 04 Mar. 2016
Location: CT
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squidtone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2020 at 9:18pm
Camber is published in the Universal Service manual to be 1.5 degrees for all CJ models (4wd). This equates to the top of the wheel overhanging the bottom by about 3/4 of an inch. Your right angle square shows that's just about what you have. I'd say everything is normal.
Nice Jeep!
Dave
Back to Top
likeg View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan. 2018
Location: Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote likeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb. 2020 at 11:26pm
Thanks for all the feedback. I'll just finish a few minor details including adjusting the toe and go for a ride. Guess I was worried about nothing. I have done several full rebuilds on cars and trucks, but never anything with 4wd or a straight axle do I assumed the positive camber should not be there. I'm 
used to looking at wheels/tires that usually have close to "0" camber. Nice to know the camber is pretty close to where it should be. 
Thanks for the info
Back to Top
Red Willy View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Mar. 2014
Location: Lake Villa IL
Status: Offline
Points: 503
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 7:20am
Camber is affected by ride height as well. When doing a Front End Alignment you check / set ride height, camber , caster and toe is last. When you sit in the drivers seat it will change the angle slightly. You stated that the drivers side is sitting higher than the passenger side so the camber is going to be off when compared. 
Glen
49 CJ3A
Back to Top
rocnroll View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: Tuscumbia, AL
Status: Offline
Points: 11945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 8:55am
Originally posted by Red Willy Red Willy wrote:

Camber is affected by ride height as well. When doing a Front End Alignment you check / set ride height, camber , caster and toe is last. When you sit in the drivers seat it will change the angle slightly. You stated that the drivers side is sitting higher than the passenger side so the camber is going to be off when compared. 


? Hmmmm......

I always though toe-in is all that is adjustable on these ol ' rigs.

'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty

"Common sense is not that common"
Back to Top
SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 22 Jan. 2016
Location: S.E. Kansas
Status: Offline
Points: 1610
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 9:31am
Caster and camber are set for life on a a Dana model 25 axle...unless something is damaged.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red"



Back to Top
Joe Friday View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Sponsor Member x 2

Joined: 26 Dec. 2010
Location: Jeep Central
Status: Offline
Points: 2402
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 9:51am
Glen is thinking of his GM independent or SLA suspensions.
 On solid, or 'live' axles, camber does not change with ride height.
Back to Top
rocnroll View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Sponsor Member

Joined: 20 July 2005
Location: Tuscumbia, AL
Status: Offline
Points: 11945
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocnroll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 10:40am
.....yep.....

'47 CJ2A PU
'48 CJ2A Lefty

"Common sense is not that common"
Back to Top
Red Willy View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Mar. 2014
Location: Lake Villa IL
Status: Offline
Points: 503
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb. 2020 at 10:42am
I stand corrected, Keith is correct. 
Glen
49 CJ3A
Back to Top
likeg View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan. 2018
Location: Ca
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote likeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb. 2020 at 10:36pm
Now another problem, set the toe and everything looked good. Jumped in to move the Jeep to a different area and when I turn to the left the right tire rubs on the right spring in the front. Running stock rims with 6-16 tires. The tire shouldn’t rub but it does. I’m out of ideas. Anybody else experience this problem with stock tire and wheel sizes? 
Back to Top
athawk11 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jan. 2012
Location: Arvada,Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 3621
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote athawk11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb. 2020 at 11:52pm
Your wheel stop probably needs adjustment.
1- 1946 CJ2A   
2- 1949 CJ3A
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.