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Potential Buy--Whats it worth?

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vtsteve View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Nov. 2018 at 10:21pm
Hey Guys, I found another CJ2A that I looked at yesterday that a guy is looking to sell. It really has me thinking it could be "the one". The guy did significant work to it 4-5 years ago and has pictures that document the process.

He stripped it to the frame 5 years ago. Frame Media Blasted, Primed, Painted. New WO body (all new sheetmetal minus the grill). New (original style) carb. Heads removed, and he said the engine looked good. Other mechanicals (x-cast, transmission, axles) opened up, cleaned, but not rebuilt. Steering box rebuilt & all new brakes. All new wiring.

The jeep includes a military trailer & sears hard top, both of which are rough and havne't been touched. He is asking $7K.

It smoked a bit when choked until it warmed up, but then the motor ran good. I drove it--it felt tight except for 2nd gear. From what I read, popping out of 2nd is very common and a symptom of a needed rebuild. Tight steering, good brakes, didn't "wonder" much. It had some creaks here and there, but not surprising for 70 year old drivetrain.

I look at it and say the implosion plan would be an engine rebuild ($2-$3K), and new tranny/xcase from Herm the OD guy, another ~$2K. This puts me right in line with "turn key" rebuilds that generally are listed in the $12-$15K range.

Am I crazy to walk away from this one?

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flatfender47 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov. 2018 at 11:33pm
7k seems like a lot for a rig that needs to have the engine, transmission, and transfer case rebuilt.
1947 CJ2A 225V6 SM420 D30 PLok/D44 D/Locker Warn OD 5:38s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 12:13am
Got pictures or a link? We can tell a lot more that way. 
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Stev View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 12:25am
What exactly are you hoping to do with this Jeep?

Yes - there are people would build you a true turn key CJ2A orCJ3A for that kind of price.

Post a few pictures.



Edited by Stev - 20 Nov. 2018 at 1:13pm
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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vtsteve View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vtsteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 12:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 1:03am
I see a lot of little things that aren't right, but a lot that is good too. Why is the clutch pedal crooked? Did it continue to smoke after it started?

What part of Virginia are you in? Did you see this one in Orange? 

1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blademaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 1:32am
Originally posted by flatfender47 flatfender47 wrote:

7k seems like a lot for a rig that needs to have the engine, transmission, and transfer case rebuilt.


Agree
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 4:59am
   Dang, at first glance that is a clean rig !
And, the trailer is probably worth $1k or more, and the new tub is $2500 or more, so That puts the running gear worth $3500. Hmmm, what to do.
What would a shop charge to pull the tranny and replace 2-nd gear and then re-install ?   $1500 ? _ _ $500 to install 2-nd gear and other parts, and $1k labor to pull and re-install the trans and related stuff. I have not checked the 'flat-rate' for a T-90 R & R, not including trans gear-replacement.
Is it true a rebuilt T-90 costs $2k ?

   One thing I noticed is someone has removed the button on the floor to brace the throttle foot on, for steady-pedal. (probably a $5 part).

   Over here in northern California, and the Reno, Nevada area, I see lots of nice tricked-out Jeeps which were built to endure the Rubicon Trail, and you may find a nice Willys for around 8-10K or less on Craigslist. And most of these are arid-climate vehicles. Auto transport across the U.S. runs about $1200.

   If you buy it, the first thing I would do is replace 2-nd gear and syncros with known-good or new parts and run it for awhile to see how the engine shakes out. It may be better than you think. smoke on start-up is usually valve-guides but that could also be carb running rich, probably not.

   My first '46 I bought in '84 jumped out of second under de-accel, so it was the first thing I fixed on that rig. then I tore the engine down and deglazed the cylinders and installed new valve guides and lapped the valves. What a nice running engine. The bearings and wrist-pins were all within spec.
I use Plasti-guage on all bearings for clearance check.

   Seems I was reading somewhere that the L134 has a steel crankshaft.
Do you know if this is true ?


Edited by Greaser007 - 20 Nov. 2018 at 5:31am
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 5:33pm
Fix the transmission with new 2nd gear and syncro's and drive it. I can't say much for the paint job, but the rest of it looks pretty good.

It shouldn't cost more than $1500 to do the transmission work. Even cheaper if you do your own work. Priced right, a New T90 is a $1000.
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vtsteve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 6:43pm
To answer everyone's questions:

1) Stev--I've always liked flat fenders. My family has a farm/hunting property where the jeep would live. It would not be a daily driver by any means and would likely live an easy life of light trail riding on occasion.
2) ndnchf--I do not know why the clutch is crooked. The jeep didn't smoke after it got warmed up. By "cold start", the jeep was in a semi heated garage (say 50 degrees) and hadn't been started in a few weeks. The smoke was white/blue, which makes me think it was burning a bit of oil until it warmed. I'm in southwestern VA, 4 hours from NOVA. I had seen the ad for the tan 2A in NOVA--but that's a long haul.
3) Regarding the paint job, its a vinyl wrap with matte black paint under it. Honestly, this is probably the extent of body work that I'd be qualified to handle. The new sheet metal makes me feel like there aren't any unknowns that I'm getting roped into.


If I can talk myself into thinking this is a good thing, I'll go back with a buddy and really give it a hard once over, including compression test, take the wheels off, check bearings, etc.


The guy who is selling it is very honest and I have full trust that he's not hiding anything. Its always cool to hear stories of how these old jeeps came back to life, and this one is no different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ggordon49 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 7:06pm
I wouldn't doubt that he has 7.5K into it, It's just as we all know, It's very difficult to get that back when you have to sell.... I wish you the best with any decision you make. If you don't get this one, another one will surely find you Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 10:45pm
If he will let you do a compression check and other detail inspections, that would be great. The smoking at start up could just be sticky rings that loosen up. If compression is good and it runs well, it should be ok. The popping out of 2nd gear when decelerating is very common. Many of us have learned to live with it. It doesnt mean the trans is shot, just that it has typical wear. If the trans is good otherwise, you may be able to drive it for many years as-is. 
1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov. 2018 at 11:31pm
Ok here’s my two cents worth. In my experience things are worth whatever you are willing to pay for them until you pay for them. Then they are worth something less. Most issues you have described are typical issues that any Willy’s you might buy could come down with at anytime.  If you buy one and go through the mechanicals on it yourself. Then you have a pretty good idea what makes it tick. And you know what you’ve got. From what I’ve seen just about any complete Willy’s is 2500. Doesn’t even have to run, probably doesn’t have brakes. Those are good things cause you can’t steer it. Body’s are 3500. I doubt you could get the body on the frame for another 1000 in stuff. So there’s 7000. And your getting a free trailer and a hard top that’s worth something. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov. 2018 at 12:48am
A completely rebuilt Tranny from Herm is like $850 about the same on a transfer case. Less to have someone like Richard Darr at Washougal Classic Jeep Rebuild yours (he provides trannys to Herm and places like Walcks and Kaiser Willys.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec4193 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov. 2018 at 1:07am
Hey VTsteve

If you plan on keeping I would say offer him the difference it would cost to do the noted repairs you spoke of...

If you plan on flipping it might be better to find another one because you will never be able to get it up and running the way you want it and make anything on it when you go to sell it...

my 2 cents....

MikeC


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov. 2018 at 2:29am
Originally posted by Mike F Mike F wrote:

Ok here’s my two cents worth. In my experience things are worth whatever you are willing to pay for them until you pay for them. Then they are worth something less. Most issues you have described are typical issues that any Willy’s you might buy could come down with at anytime.  If you buy one and go through the mechanicals on it yourself. Then you have a pretty good idea what makes it tick. And you know what you’ve got. From what I’ve seen just about any complete Willy’s is 2500. Doesn’t even have to run, probably doesn’t have brakes. Those are good things cause you can’t steer it. Body’s are 3500. I doubt you could get the body on the frame for another 1000 in stuff. So there’s 7000. And your getting a free trailer and a hard top that’s worth something. 

I have to agree with what Mike F says. With all the work that has been done plus the trailer and top, it's not bad at 7k. In looking around they are asking 4 to 6K for Willys that are pretty ragged out. You might be able to drive it quite awhile before you have to do anything to the engine. Look at the Rick Stivers youtube about trouble shooting second gear. You might get by with shimming the transmission to cure the 2nd gear problem. He also had a recent video about installing the shift tour under tension to take up some slack in 2nd gear. The fact that it is close by where you can look at it and drive it is a big plus. Sure beats buying on the internet then paying $1000 to $1500 to get it shipped.       
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1947 CJ2A 127735
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1955 Kaiser Willys Pickup
Half the distance takes you twice as long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndnchf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov. 2018 at 7:47pm
VT Steve - Any updates?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windyhill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov. 2018 at 9:28pm
If it's still for sale he's sat on it for a while. I'd offer 5K
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