Pulling camshaft gear to change engine plate? |
Post Reply | Page <1234 5> |
Author | |
WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I have taken quite a few cam gears off using a 2 arm bearing/hub puller. I don't hook to the outer tooth part of the gear but go through the 2 holes with the tabs of the puller facing the center of the gear and hold them in place using snug fitting sockets or what ever I can find to keep the arms of the puller tight against the center and from spreading while pulling the gear off.
Jim
|
|
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
|
|
dasvis
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Sep. 2019 Location: Salem, Oregon Status: Offline Points: 1546 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Easy outs............... are not.
|
|
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty" 1964 Thunderbird convertible ..... & one of them moves under it's own power!! |
|
WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That broken bolt should come out with out very much work since the bolt itself isn't bottomed out creating a torque against the threads and a bolt that size using a larger easy out should work OK. It is those smaller size easy outs that break easy and causes problems.
Jim.
|
|
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
|
|
Ron D
Member Joined: 27 Oct. 2019 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 1433 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Go ahead and pull the camshaft as described above, take it to your local machine shop where they can remove it for $20 the right way (and a lot more precisely and easier than you can) --- and bonus you don't have to buy fancy extractor tools that cost more than $20. If you booger it up or break an easy out off in it the machine shop will chuckle at you and charge you $40 to fix it. But before they do that you (or the machine shop) can inspect and measure the cam using the manual to see if it's otherwise good to go. More peace of mind on moving parts. And making friends at the local machine shop in this hobby is a very good edge to have. Reminds me of the time I started out remodeling a bathroom and ended up remodeling the kitchen.....
Edited by Ron D - 14 Sep. 2021 at 10:22pm |
|
1951 M38
1951 M100 |
|
mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4778 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Every 10 minute job is 37 pounds away from being hours, and if youre going to play with 70 year old iron you best settle in and get used to it . Don’t be so apprehensive about pulling the cam if you go the machine shop route. It’s not magic, really. Im going to x200 on the easy outs… my track record with them feels like maybe a ten percent success rate. This is not the place to be welding nuts, etc, given the ease of removing the cam and taking it somewhere. Me, im finding a drill the same size as the bolt hole… it will tend to self center and drill a centered dimple in the remaining bolt to start. Then switch to a bit smaller than the threads and drill… work up in bit size until you can just see threads, pick them clean near the top and slowly chase with a tap to clean out. Bright side? Easy access and easy to get your favorite penetrant in there before you start. Soak it a day or two before and as mentioned above a left handed bit will likely spin it out before you finish drilling.
Bottom line, this is hardly the end of the world, and awesome practice for the next one… and there will be a next one ;)
Edited by mbullism - 15 Sep. 2021 at 6:34am |
|
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
|
|
Joe DeYoung
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Madison WI Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I almost never recommend the use of an easy-out but in this case I agree with Jim. Being a machine shop owner I have made a lot of money extracting fasteners after someone has butchered it trying to use an easy-out. Even with that knowledge, I think this may be one of the rare few cases where an easy-out is an appropriate solution. Here are some tips if you decide to try an easy-out. 1) If it doesn't come out easy then stop before you break the easy-out off. Breaking it off is when things start to get pretty expensive at the machine shop. 2) Don't drill and excessively large or deep hole. You're not likely to drill a straight hole and you don't want to drill into the cam material. Drill just enough for the easy-out to bite into the fastener without bottoming out on the bottom of the hole.
|
|
Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife. |
|
Adventure Van
Member Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I really appreciate everyone rallying around me with my little dilemma. After considering the above opinions and sleeping on it, I have decided to use a left handed drill bit. I failed to mention in my previous post that I actually had that bolt OUT. It wasn't hard to remove. After it was removed, I realized that I didn't have the dots lined up on the gears, so I put it back in, pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the engine over using my torque wrench. I knew that the specs said 40 lbs, maximum torque. At about 35 lbs the engine turned a few teeth closer to aligning the dots, but then stopped turning. I continued to torque to 37lbs and that's when the bolt broke. I reported earlier that it snapped, but after I've thought about it more, it was more like a twist, because I felt it get easier for a second before it broke. My thoughts are: That the bolt, when I took it out, probably got PB Blaster on the threads from my hands. It threaded in quite easily by hand and as long (as one member wrote) it isn't bottomed out, it should be "easy" to turn with a left handed bit. I won't be able to get to this until late this afternoon, so if anyone has any final input before I attempt this, please let me know. Maybe, if anyone has any input on what size bit(s) to use, or any other technique?
Oh yeah and the gear still needs to be removed too! That's chapter II.
|
|
Adventure Van
Member Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
|
Joe DeYoung
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Madison WI Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You actually have a left handed drill bit?... and have size options? That seems unlikely to me. Are you sure they are left handed?
Edited by Joe DeYoung - 15 Sep. 2021 at 9:16am |
|
Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife. |
|
Adventure Van
Member Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yes, very unlikely that I own a set of LH bits. I was going to buy the appropriate bits today. If anyone has any suggestion as to sizes to use, please let me know.
|
|
Joe DeYoung
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Madison WI Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Unless you live in a major industrial metropolis, you're not likely going to be able to just go to a local hardware store and buy a left handed drill bit. That's an unusual item and you'll most likely have to go to a place that sells industrial tooling like MSC, McMaster Carr, Grainger, ect. Else you will have to order it online.
I really don't see you have that much to gain by trying to buy something that is difficult to obtain. If it was my project, I would use the easy-out as it's easily obtainable... and it's left handed too. Your problem is a good application for it.
|
|
Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife. |
|
WeeWilly
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 07 May 2009 Location: Clayton IN Status: Offline Points: 3423 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I agree with Joe, If we aren't careful we can "make a mountain out of a mole hill".
Jim
|
|
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
|
|
Adventure Van
Member Joined: 12 Aug. 2021 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 95 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I live in the 5th largest city in the US. I can get anything here. I'm a little confused about the "easy out" "bolt extractor" use. Many guys here are saying do NOT use. Some are saying ok to use a larger one, but not a small one. Some are saying use LH drill. Some are saying don't even try it. pull the cam and take it to a machine shop. -Confused in Phoenix!
|
|
mbullism
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 29 May 2015 Location: MA Status: Offline Points: 4778 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Now knowing you had the bolt out previously and how it broke, I'd lean towards the easy out as well... most of the friction on the threads went away when the head came off (I'd be surprised if you could drill it without it spinning in until the bolt bottomed out)
|
|
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
|
|
TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Harbor Freight has LH bits, or they used to.
|
|
BOULDER 48 2A
|
|
Joe DeYoung
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Madison WI Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I can see how you can be confused. Some of the earlier comments in the thread are made with less specific info about your situation.... just like my comment about you not being able to obtain LH drill bits. We have enough info now that I'm guessing most will agree that the easy-out is a viable solution for your problem.
|
|
Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife. |
|
Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2384 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It is interesting no one has recommended hit it with a hammer and punch hard a few times in addition the other recommended steps above. Also, you can get better control of the starting hole by using a center punch and then Machinists' center drill to start the hole.
|
|
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
|
Joe DeYoung
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 July 2005 Location: Madison WI Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The threads of the broken fastener are most likely loose and easy to turn right now. Hitting hard with a hammer will distort the threads (both the fastener and cam) and will make it harder to remove the fastener. A light tap with a center punch to create a start for a small drill is ok... but DO NOT hit it hard.
|
|
Joe DeYoung
to many jeeps, parts, and accessories to list here, but apparently enough to keep me in trouble with my wife. |
|
Post Reply | Page <1234 5> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |