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Pulling camshaft gear to change engine plate?

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WeeWilly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2021 at 8:55pm
 I have taken quite a few cam gears off using a 2 arm bearing/hub puller.  I don't hook to the outer tooth part of the gear but go through the 2 holes with the tabs of the puller facing the center of the gear and hold them in place using snug fitting sockets or what ever I can find to keep the arms of the puller tight against the center and from spreading while pulling the gear off.

    Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2021 at 9:16pm
Easy outs............... are not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2021 at 9:30pm
  That broken bolt should come out with out very much work since the bolt itself isn't bottomed out creating a torque against the threads and a bolt that size  using a larger easy out should work OK.  It is those smaller size easy outs that break easy and causes problems.

   Jim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep. 2021 at 10:15pm
Go ahead and pull the camshaft as described above, take it to your local machine shop where they can remove it for $20 the right way (and a lot more precisely and easier than you can) --- and bonus you don't have to buy fancy extractor tools that cost more than $20. If you booger it up or break an easy out off in it the machine shop will chuckle at you and charge you $40 to fix it.

But before they do that you (or the machine shop) can inspect and measure the cam using the manual to see if it's otherwise good to go. More peace of mind on moving parts. And making friends at the local machine shop in this hobby is a very good edge to have.

Reminds me of the time I started out remodeling a bathroom and ended up remodeling the kitchen.....


Edited by Ron D - 14 Sep. 2021 at 10:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:03am
Every 10 minute job is 37 pounds away from being hours, and if youre going to play with 70 year old iron you best settle in and get used to it Wink.  Don’t be so apprehensive about pulling the cam if you go the machine shop route.  It’s not magic, really.  Im going to x200 on the easy outs… my track record with them feels like maybe a ten percent success rate.  This is not the place to be welding nuts, etc, given the ease of removing the cam and taking it somewhere.  Me, im finding a drill the same size as the bolt hole… it will tend to self center and drill a centered dimple in the remaining bolt to start.  Then switch to a bit smaller than the threads and drill… work up in bit size until you can just see threads, pick them clean near the top and slowly chase with a tap to clean out.  Bright side? Easy access and easy to get your favorite penetrant in there before you start. Soak it a day or two before and as mentioned above a left handed bit will likely spin it out before you finish drilling.

Bottom line, this is hardly the end of the world, and awesome practice for the next one… and there will be a next one ;)


Edited by mbullism - Yesterday at 6:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 hours 10 minutes ago at 8:31am
Originally posted by WeeWilly WeeWilly wrote:

  That broken bolt should come out with out very much work since the bolt itself isn't bottomed out creating a torque against the threads and a bolt that size  using a larger easy out should work OK.  It is those smaller size easy outs that break easy and causes problems.

   Jim.

I almost never recommend the use of an easy-out but in this case I agree with Jim. Being a machine shop owner I have made a lot of money extracting fasteners after someone has butchered it trying to use an easy-out. Even with that knowledge, I think this may be one of the rare few cases where an easy-out is an appropriate solution.

Here are some tips if you decide to try an easy-out.
1) If it doesn't come out easy then stop before you break the easy-out off. Breaking it off is when things start to get pretty expensive at the machine shop. 
2) Don't drill and excessively large or deep hole. You're not likely to drill a straight hole and you don't want to drill into the cam material. Drill just enough for the easy-out to bite into the fastener without bottoming out on the bottom of the hole. 
Joe DeYoung
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 43 minutes ago at 8:58am
I really appreciate everyone rallying around me with my little dilemma.  After considering the above opinions and sleeping on it, I have decided to use a left handed drill bit.  I failed to mention in my previous post that I actually had that bolt OUT.  It wasn't hard to remove. After it was removed, I realized that I didn't have the dots lined up on the gears, so I put it back in, pulled the spark plugs and tried to turn the engine over using my torque wrench.  I knew that the specs said 40 lbs, maximum torque.  At about 35 lbs the engine turned a few teeth closer to aligning the dots, but then stopped turning.  I continued to torque to 37lbs and that's when the bolt broke.  I reported earlier that it snapped, but after I've thought about it more, it was more like a twist, because I felt it get easier for a second before it broke.  My thoughts are: That the bolt, when I took it out, probably got PB Blaster on the threads from my hands.  It threaded in quite easily by hand and as long (as one member wrote) it isn't bottomed out, it should be "easy" to turn with a left handed bit.  I won't be able to get to this until late this afternoon, so if anyone has any final input before I attempt this, please let me know.   Maybe, if anyone has any input on what size bit(s) to use, or any other technique?  

Oh yeah and the gear still needs to be removed too!  That's chapter II.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 27 minutes ago at 9:14am
Originally posted by mbullism mbullism wrote:

Every 10 minute job is 37 pounds away from being hours, and if youre going to play with 70 year old iron you best settle in and get used to it Wink.  Don’t be so apprehensive about pulling the cam if you go the machine shop route.  It’s not magic, really.  Im going to x200 on the easy outs… my track record with them feels like maybe a ten percent success rate.  This is not the place to be welding nuts, etc, given the ease of removing the cam and taking it somewhere.  Me, im finding a drill the same size as the bolt hole… it will tend to self center and drill a centered dimple in the remaining bolt to start.  Then switch to a bit smaller than the threads and drill… work up in bit size until you can just see threads, pick them clean near the top and slowly chase with a tap to clean out.  Bright side? Easy access and easy to get your favorite penetrant in there before you start. Soak it a day or two before and as mentioned above a left handed bit will likely spin it out before you finish drilling.

Bottom line, this is hardly the end of the world, and awesome practice for the next one… and there will be a next one ;)
  I'm thinking of using this approach, with a left handed bit, but hoping that it comes out before the tapping stage!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 26 minutes ago at 9:15am
You actually have a left handed drill bit?... and have size options? That seems unlikely to me. Are you sure they are left handed?

Edited by Joe DeYoung - 22 hours 25 minutes ago at 9:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 hours 12 minutes ago at 9:29am
Yes, very unlikely that I own a set of LH bits.  I was going to buy the appropriate bits today.  If anyone has any suggestion as to sizes to use, please let me know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 51 minutes ago at 9:50am
Unless you live in a major industrial metropolis, you're not likely going to be able to just go to a local hardware store and buy a left handed drill bit. That's an unusual item and you'll most likely have to go to a place that sells industrial tooling like MSC, McMaster Carr, Grainger, ect. Else you will have to order it online. 

I really don't see you have that much to gain by trying to buy something that is difficult to obtain. If it was my project, I would use the easy-out as it's easily obtainable...  and it's left handed too. Smile  Your problem is a good application for it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 44 minutes ago at 9:57am
  I agree with Joe,  If we aren't careful we can "make a mountain out of a mole hill".

    Jim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adventure Van Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 35 minutes ago at 10:06am
I live in the 5th largest city in the US.  I can get anything here.  I'm a little confused about the "easy out" "bolt extractor" use.  Many guys here are saying do NOT use.  Some are saying ok to use a larger one, but not a small one.  Some are saying use LH drill.  Some are saying don't even try it.  pull the cam and take it to a machine shop.  -Confused in Phoenix!Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 23 minutes ago at 10:18am
Now knowing you had the bolt out previously and how it broke, I'd lean towards the easy out as well... most of the friction on the threads went away when the head came off  (I'd be surprised if you could drill it without it spinning in until the bolt bottomed out)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TERRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 hours 4 minutes ago at 10:37am
Harbor Freight has LH bits, or they used to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 56 minutes ago at 10:45am
I can see how you can be confused. Some of the earlier comments in the thread are made with less specific info about your situation.... just like my comment about you not being able to obtain LH drill bits. We have enough info now that I'm guessing most will agree that the easy-out is a viable solution for your problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 46 minutes ago at 10:55am
It is interesting no one has recommended hit it with a hammer and punch hard a few times in addition the other recommended steps above.  Also, you can get better control of the starting hole by using a center punch and then Machinists' center drill to start the hole. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe DeYoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 34 minutes ago at 11:07am
Originally posted by Stev Stev wrote:

It is interesting no one has recommended hit it with a hammer and punch hard a few times in addition the other recommended steps above.  Also, you can get better control of the starting hole by using a center punch and then Machinists' center drill to start the hole. 

The threads of the broken fastener are most likely loose and easy to turn right now. Hitting hard with a hammer will distort the threads (both the fastener and cam) and will make it harder to remove the fastener. A light tap with a center punch to create a start for a small drill is ok... but DO NOT hit it hard. 
Joe DeYoung
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