Rear Full Float Locking Hubs Broken |
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Author | |
Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
vuldub,
Did you destroy only one hub, or both? If one, how does the other one look? Is it possible that you might have a bent axle housing, or spindle? Do you have a locker or limited slip, or an open diff? Have you had any problems with the wheel (hub) bearings? Is there any apparent wear on the axle splines? Did you buy the kit with all new parts, or the one with refurbished spindles and hubs? I'm curious, I'd like to know what happened. "Herm told me that he does not feel the Warn are as strong as the AVM." I'd like to know what he bases this on. I know Herm's no dummy, he surely knows how both are built. I've heard, in several different places, that the newer Warn hubs aren't what the old ones were. I'm getting ready to spend a little over a thousand dollars, not mine but a friend's, and I'd hate to think that I'm buying trouble for him or me. BW
|
|
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Both hubs destroyed. Axle is brand new. Spindle is brand new. Bearing tight and new. Open diff. No wear on axle spline or hub gear that meshes with the axle. Kit was all new parts.
Only Herm knows his opinions, you will have to ask him why he thinks AVM is better than Warn. I have also heard newer Warn hubs are not like the older ones. I am still looking for solutions so I cannot help you with your answer. If I knew this before, I would likely not go full floater, but take the driveshaft off.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
Unkamonkey
Member Joined: 23 Mar. 2016 Location: Greeley CO Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is all very interesting. I've thought of doing the free floating rear axle bit but considering the fun some people had with them here and on other forums, I will just continue to pull the rear driveshaft when I tow the thing for any distance I've never broken a hub. The hub of choice? I don't know. Everything Jeep here has Warns on them.
Yeah, check for bent parts in the rear end. That seemed to be the problem with others Jeeps breaking hubs on another forum. |
|
uncamonkey
|
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
No bent parts, they are new. Double checked just in case and nothing bent. Spindle bearings are tight - zero play. Axle bearings are tight, zero play.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Your comment made me re-think things through. I measured the rotational runout of the axle to the spindle/hub and was surprised to discover there was 1/4" difference in a 90degree rotation. Since the spindle is firmly bolted to the axle tube flanges, this must mean that the axle tubes are bent. The runout is consistent with an upward force (tubes bent up) - both sides have the same issue.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2389 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Earlier I had given by flat tow procedure. Well this weekend I flat towed the 1946 trail
Jeep. I unhooked the rear
drive shaft and wrapped the U-Joint in duct tape. When I got to my destination one of the
U-Joint bearing caps was gone. I carry a
spare U-Joint and took a bearing cap off it only to find that different
manufactures make the internal diameter of the U-Joint posts and caps. Bummer - I ended up just parking it and took
the 2006 Rubicon that we towed the CJ2A with on the trail. As best I can figure, I need more than two full warps of
duct tape and you need to make sure it is really secured to limit the chance of
anything getting damaged. This is the
first time in 30 plus years of flat towing I have had this issue. My trail spare U-Joint is now the same as the U-Joint
mounted in the drive shaft. It is amazing the simple things that can take you out of the
game. Stev |
|
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Stev. I think you posted in the wrong thread. This is about full float rear ends. There is another thread for flat towing...
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
Stev
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Cincinnati Status: Offline Points: 2389 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Wes, You are correct - that is a thread over in the modified section.
Bummer to hear that the axle tubes in this tread are bent. Stev
|
|
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored |
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Update. My axle tubes are not bent. I measured wrong the first time. So I have not uncovered the source of the problem other that the AVM hubs may not be able to hold up to the stress. I did notice two difference between Warn and AVM. Warn hubs come well lubricated in the clutch bushings, AVM ones don't. Warn hubs use the spring to disengage while the AVM hubs relie on the spring to engage.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9651 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
One of the best ways I have found in many years of doing this kind of work to check a rear-end (or front) housing for straightness is to take everything out of it (obviously this is best done when it's already apart) and look through it from one end to the other. The eye will automatically line up all the bores, like rifle sights, and if there is even the slightest amount of bend, it will be very obvious. I found this by accident, when I was a young mechanic (before we became "technicians") and I looked thru a housing to see if it was clean. Instantly, I knew something was wrong.
Another way, with the axle completely assembled and on the vehicle, is to check camber and toe-in. Both should be zero. And, with the axle off of the vehicle but with wheels and tires in place, hold the tires stationary and turn the housing, watching the tires. If the housing is bent, the tires will wobble. I hope this helps somebody BW Edit: The last two suggestions, obviously will only work on rear axle housings. BW
Edited by Bruce W - 06 Feb. 2017 at 9:30pm |
|
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
|
Mike S
Member Joined: 20 May 2006 Location: West Coast Status: Offline Points: 2318 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I installed a Warn FF axle kit with Warn premium hubs in 1999. They work well, but you MUST tighten the set screw on the outer bezel ring before driving. And they can be a bit fussy when manually engaging the hubs after towing. No real issues using this set-up.
|
|
'47 CJ2A -- #114542
Warn FF D41 rear Lock-Right locker 11" drum brakes Dual master cylinder T90C Transmission 16 X 6 Jeep truck wheels Cooper STT Pro tires |
|
Speedy
Member Joined: 07 Apr. 2010 Location: Toronto Canada Status: Offline Points: 531 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
has anyone looked into Yukon gears locking hubs?
steel and chromoly built. I know they are costly. I am unsure if they make anything for our axles.
|
|
- Mike
47 CJ2A - Warn OD, Ramsey PT1-J/Koenig 100,Arctic top,Dana 44 30 spline full float with disc's,Dana 30 with discs, 2.5 lift, Saginaw power steering, dual master cylinder |
|
Rick G
Member Joined: 17 May 2015 Location: Amarillo, TX Status: Offline Points: 1467 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Wes, I don't know how I missed this thread back in October, but I'll share my experience now. I installed Herm's full floating axles in my D41 a couple of years ago. I put the D44 30 spline axles in with a little modification to the carrier. I also put in a mini-spool to completely lock the rear end. I've been running 33X12.50X15 tires as well. I have the stock L134. I put the top of the line Warn hubs on all four corners (like the ones in the link above). They are pricey but I haven't had any issues with them. I wheel pretty hard and have never busted a hub on any wheel. I will agree, however, that the quality of the Warn hubs is not what it used to be. The hubs seem to be made out of pot metal now, maybe cast aluminum, but not something I would consider tough. I had concerns about their durability, but they've lasted these last two years of pretty tough off-roading.
I will say that if you don't totally degrease and lock-tite the hub bolts they will loosen and the hub will start to back off. I had this happen 2 or 3 times, even with lock-tite (I finally used the strongest lock-tite). This will obviously cause wear and tear, and possibly ultimate failure, of the hubs. Is it possible that your hub bolts loosened and caused the malfunction that you mentioned? Anyway, I've had good luck with the Warn hubs and would recommend them. Here's some pics. Rick |
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Rick. Are you referring to the torx bolts that hold the hub together or the bolts that connect the locking hub to the wheel hub? The torx bolts were so tight I barely got them off without multiple cusses. The hub bolts were tight too.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
Rick G
Member Joined: 17 May 2015 Location: Amarillo, TX Status: Offline Points: 1467 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm talking about the hub to hub bolts. Somehow, mine backed out on all wheels multiple times with proper torque and lock-tite. I finally put a little longer bolt and premium lock-tite on all bolts and haven't had a problem in at least a year under some pretty serious off-roading.
I suspect that a problem such as yours could develop by either the hub or the cap becoming loose. I'm not saying that is what caused it, but I don't think it was axle shaft end-play from the looks at your video and knowing how our floating axles fit. The only other thing I see from looking at your video, and please don't take this as if I think you don't know what you are doing, but do you FULLY disengage the hub when not in use? In other words, looking at those hubs, it appears that if they aren't fully disengaged, then they could be riding on the splines and causing the wear that you show. Perhaps, they are rotating (the locking knob/lever) on their own either loosening or tightening under normal driving. I can see how this would cause grinding of the splines if they weren't fully engaged or fully disengaged. Maybe the "locked in" position detent isn't strong enough and they back out over time and a few miles? |
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Rick, very interesting thought. I am rotating the hub to free position and it clicks into place, but does that truly mean the hub is out? I will investigate.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
vuldub
Member Joined: 06 Nov. 2014 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Post Options
Thanks(2)
|
Its been two years since I posted on this thread so I thought I would update. I swapped out the AVM hubs for Warn ones after the AVM destroyed themselves. I have had two seasons on the Warn hubs with no problems. Recently I tore the Warn hubs down to check them and they are it excellent condition. I am of the opinion that the AVM hubs not only engage less thickness of spline than the Warn hubs, but the AVM hubs have poorer quality splines and that is why they failed. Also, the Warn hubs take a full 360 degree rotation to engage, whereas the AVM hubs take only 90 degree rotation. In the AVM hub the spring mechanism is used to engage the splines, whereas on the Warn, the spring is used to disengage the splines. So maybe the AVM hubs jump out of the splines since they are not as deeply engaged and the spring cannot hold them in when the torque gets to high.
|
|
Regards...Wes ('52 M38)
|
|
chasendeer
Member Joined: 24 Feb. 2012 Location: Napa,CA Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for the update!!
Jay
|
|
Post Reply | Page <123> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |