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Reproduction T90 - Anyone Used one?

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Oldpappy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Apr. 2022 at 10:53am
I have stumbled upon a fairly new reproduction T90 as sold by Kaiser Willys and other suppliers. It is a long input shaft so I probably won't use it in my Jeep.

Anyone have experience with one of these gearboxes? If so, how do you rate it?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2022 at 4:15pm
There are both the short and long input versions of that.  But with the cover, almost $1600+ shipping.  So why would anyone actually want an imitation of unknown quality when rebuildable/usable originals are still very abundant for way less money?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr. 2022 at 7:28pm
That is true enough, and I certainly would not pay that for one of these, but that has nothing to do with what I am asking about.

I don't have anything needing the long input shaft, just wanting to know if they are any good in case someone else needs one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 1:21am
I can’t speak to this specific unit but if there is similar quality of materials as in individual parts then it would be good to know. It seems that many of the gears etc for the imitation parts are typically off on hardness etc when actually checked.  Makes one wonder if these might have the same issue.  But who wants to pay $1600 to find out.  I will likely stick to original to avoid a concern
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 9:43am
I am not even real sure what this is yet. It is with some parts I am picking up next month. The guy bought most of his parts from KW. I am making an assumption that this gearbox came from them. It is difficult to tell from their description whether the transmissions they sell are rebuilt originals, or the imported reproductions. I am assuming the later. 

As far as the price goes, I think it is too high. Heck, I wouldn't give $1600 for a NOS original. I can build a better one for a few hundred dollars, or get a better transmission than the T90 for a lot less than $1600, but again whether the KW offering is worth the price isn't the question.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 10:49am
It is my understanding that the unit advertised by KW is a rebuilt transmission with a price of $1375. $300 of that price is the core charge. The freight on the original purchase is waived.

I would imagine that the parts for the rebuild are the same as what you could buy in the aftermarket. I guess the only thing I would wonder about is "how good is the rebuilder?" Can I do a better job?

Having rebuilt many transmissions in the shop I owned for 18 years, I guess I would bet on my skills over a mechanic in a production rebuild shop. I suppose over the years I was in business I rebuilt maybe a half dozen T-90's. All of them are still in service as far as I know. This is flatland Kansas so I never worked on many jeeps. I have rebuilt the transmission in Ol' Red about 10 years ago and it still doesn't jump out of second gear and I consider that the gold standard for a T-90 rebuild as long as it doesn't leak. I have put a new shift tower on it, sourced from KW. At $190 it delivers crisp smooth shifts and was probably much better than I could have rebuilt.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote General Eisenhower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A wrote:

 I have put a new shift tower on it, sourced from KW. At $190 it delivers crisp smooth shifts and was probably much better than I could have rebuilt.

YMMV


It's funny, I've been wanting to rebuild the shift tower, and by rebuild I mean switch over the guts to a spare, cleaned up tower casting. The one currently running has that pin holding the stick and the weld is broken on it, and I think its causing a bind sometimes. But maybe it's better to just buy a new one?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 4:00pm
I am satisfied with mine. It's only money and a bad shift tower could cause real problems on the trail.

Take part of that drill pay and spend it for the good of the economy. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 7:03pm
  I once offered to build someone, anyone, a transmission for free labor. If they would provide a case and a K-W “ everything but the case” kit, I would build the transmission for free. All I wanted was to find out if any of the parts were any good. I got no takers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 8:14pm
I bought a complete brand new Borg Warner T90A for only $400.
Oh yeah… forgot to mention that was 1978.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WellFedHobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr. 2022 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  I once offered to build someone, anyone, a transmission for free labor. If they would provide a case and a K-W “ everything but the case” kit, I would build the transmission for free. All I wanted was to find out if any of the parts were any good. I got no takers. 
BW 

As it turns out... I've effectively done just that (without the benefit of prior rebuilding experience). My original gears were rust pitted and chipped from a catastrophic front bearing failure so I ended up getting "everything but the case" in 3 separate orders. I'm an amateur and this is my first rebuild... but things don't quite fit. If the main gear and second gear were machined down just a little more where the blocking rings sit, they'd probably work. Or if I had a slightly worn but still good set of blocking rings instead of brand new ones, they'd probably work. And I'm certainly suspicious of the heat treat on the cluster gear. The first one arrived with teeth that were dented. It's my understanding that the teeth would have chipped if heat treated. It wouldn't mesh with second gear because the metal was so soft that it dented.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2022 at 5:30am
Originally posted by WellFedHobo WellFedHobo wrote:

...And I'm certainly suspicious of the heat treat on the cluster gear. The first one arrived with teeth that were dented. It's my understanding that the teeth would have chipped if heat treated. It wouldn't mesh with second gear because the metal was so soft that it dented.

Suspicious? LOL

That crap would've gone back.  If you can prick it with a punch I'd offer it wasn't case hardened at all.  Junk.  Gears should be like M&M's.

Try and dent an M&M with a prick punch Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2022 at 8:25pm
Yeah, I am not too confident about this thing.

I really don't understand why anyone would pay that kind of money for a T-90, or any other transmission, but at that price you would think quality components would be used. 

Why I like to re-build my own stuff, it is the only way to know what I have. 

I will reserve judgement on this gearbox until I have it in my shop. I may put it in something to try it out, or I may just tear it down for a look at. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WellFedHobo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2022 at 9:37pm
I'd run it for a bit and report back to the rest of us for science. It seems to me that it would be fine for street use but as soon as you go rock crawling, you'd lose gear teeth. 

Since I'm in a similar boat, I'll report back on my situation eventually.


Edited by WellFedHobo - 30 Apr. 2022 at 9:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 8:31am
If the gears in this transmission were sub-standard, i.e not case hardened, then it wouldn't even last in regular road use, let alone off road. Gears are case hardened for a reason...so they don't distort, flake off, or run down at the heel...

Every particle that flakes off of a non-hardened gear eventually goes through every bearing in the transmission and damages the bearings irreparably.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 10:12am
It is a long input transmission from a Willys truck. The only running Jeeps I have are standard CJs with four cylinders, so I don't have anything I can run it in unless I swap out the input shaft. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 12:04pm
Or, don't some of the old chevy v8 to t90 adapters use the long shaft? or v6 to t90?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2022 at 1:35pm
Yes. 

I have a couple of those adaptors, as well as a 1971 Jeep one piece bell housing that has been drilled and tapped for a T90 so would work with either a T90 or what came in the Dauntless. 

When those bell housings were available from the Jeep dealers there must have been a lot of conversions using them as I have owned two Jeeps, a M38, and a CJ5 standard that had been converted to a V6 using those bells. You need the long input shaft for that too.
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