Reproduction T90 - Anyone Used one? |
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4815 |
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Posted: 27 Apr. 2022 at 10:53am |
I have stumbled upon a fairly new reproduction T90 as sold by Kaiser Willys and other suppliers. It is a long input shaft so I probably won't use it in my Jeep.
Anyone have experience with one of these gearboxes? If so, how do you rate it?
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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duffer
Member Joined: 02 Feb. 2012 Location: Bozeman, MT Status: Offline Points: 1076 |
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There are both the short and long input versions of that. But with the cover, almost $1600+ shipping. So why would anyone actually want an imitation of unknown quality when rebuildable/usable originals are still very abundant for way less money?
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1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4815 |
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That is true enough, and I certainly would not pay that for one of these, but that has nothing to do with what I am asking about.
I don't have anything needing the long input shaft, just wanting to know if they are any good in case someone else needs one.
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Bitz
Member Joined: 17 Dec. 2020 Location: MN Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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I can’t speak to this specific unit but if there is similar quality of materials as in individual parts then it would be good to know. It seems that many of the gears etc for the imitation parts are typically off on hardness etc when actually checked. Makes one wonder if these might have the same issue. But who wants to pay $1600 to find out. I will likely stick to original to avoid a concern
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4815 |
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I am not even real sure what this is yet. It is with some parts I am picking up next month. The guy bought most of his parts from KW. I am making an assumption that this gearbox came from them. It is difficult to tell from their description whether the transmissions they sell are rebuilt originals, or the imported reproductions. I am assuming the later.
As far as the price goes, I think it is too high. Heck, I wouldn't give $1600 for a NOS original. I can build a better one for a few hundred dollars, or get a better transmission than the T90 for a lot less than $1600, but again whether the KW offering is worth the price isn't the question.
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3183 |
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It is my understanding that the unit advertised by KW is a rebuilt transmission with a price of $1375. $300 of that price is the core charge. The freight on the original purchase is waived.
I would imagine that the parts for the rebuild are the same as what you could buy in the aftermarket. I guess the only thing I would wonder about is "how good is the rebuilder?" Can I do a better job? Having rebuilt many transmissions in the shop I owned for 18 years, I guess I would bet on my skills over a mechanic in a production rebuild shop. I suppose over the years I was in business I rebuilt maybe a half dozen T-90's. All of them are still in service as far as I know. This is flatland Kansas so I never worked on many jeeps. I have rebuilt the transmission in Ol' Red about 10 years ago and it still doesn't jump out of second gear and I consider that the gold standard for a T-90 rebuild as long as it doesn't leak. I have put a new shift tower on it, sourced from KW. At $190 it delivers crisp smooth shifts and was probably much better than I could have rebuilt. YMMV |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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General Eisenhower
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 24 Aug. 2018 Location: DE Status: Offline Points: 1692 |
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It's funny, I've been wanting to rebuild the shift tower, and by rebuild I mean switch over the guts to a spare, cleaned up tower casting. The one currently running has that pin holding the stick and the weld is broken on it, and I think its causing a bind sometimes. But maybe it's better to just buy a new one?
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I Like Ike!
1948 CJ2a "Hefty Horse" 1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2016 Jeep JKU 75th anniversary edition |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3183 |
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I am satisfied with mine. It's only money and a bad shift tower could cause real problems on the trail.
Take part of that drill pay and spend it for the good of the economy. LOL |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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Bruce W
Member Joined: 29 July 2005 Location: Northeast Colorado Status: Offline Points: 9611 |
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I once offered to build someone, anyone, a transmission for free labor. If they would provide a case and a K-W “ everything but the case” kit, I would build the transmission for free. All I wanted was to find out if any of the parts were any good. I got no takers.
BW
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It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You! We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep. |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Online Points: 4140 |
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I bought a complete brand new Borg Warner T90A for only $400.
Oh yeah… forgot to mention that was 1978.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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WellFedHobo
Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Little Rock, AR Status: Offline Points: 630 |
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As it turns out... I've effectively done just that (without the benefit of prior rebuilding experience). My original gears were rust pitted and chipped from a catastrophic front bearing failure so I ended up getting "everything but the case" in 3 separate orders. I'm an amateur and this is my first rebuild... but things don't quite fit. If the main gear and second gear were machined down just a little more where the blocking rings sit, they'd probably work. Or if I had a slightly worn but still good set of blocking rings instead of brand new ones, they'd probably work. And I'm certainly suspicious of the heat treat on the cluster gear. The first one arrived with teeth that were dented. It's my understanding that the teeth would have chipped if heat treated. It wouldn't mesh with second gear because the metal was so soft that it dented.
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Brad
1948 CJ2A #158011 "Sunk Cost Fallacy" 1945 T3-C #1431 |
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mbullism
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Suspicious? That crap would've gone back. If you can prick it with a punch I'd offer it wasn't case hardened at all. Junk. Gears should be like M&M's. Try and dent an M&M with a prick punch
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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4815 |
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Yeah, I am not too confident about this thing.
I really don't understand why anyone would pay that kind of money for a T-90, or any other transmission, but at that price you would think quality components would be used.
Why I like to re-build my own stuff, it is the only way to know what I have. I will reserve judgement on this gearbox until I have it in my shop. I may put it in something to try it out, or I may just tear it down for a look at. |
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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WellFedHobo
Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Little Rock, AR Status: Offline Points: 630 |
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I'd run it for a bit and report back to the rest of us for science. It seems to me that it would be fine for street use but as soon as you go rock crawling, you'd lose gear teeth.
Since I'm in a similar boat, I'll report back on my situation eventually.
Edited by WellFedHobo - 30 Apr. 2022 at 9:38pm |
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Brad
1948 CJ2A #158011 "Sunk Cost Fallacy" 1945 T3-C #1431 |
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Jan. 2016 Location: S.E. Kansas Status: Offline Points: 3183 |
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If the gears in this transmission were sub-standard, i.e not case hardened, then it wouldn't even last in regular road use, let alone off road. Gears are case hardened for a reason...so they don't distort, flake off, or run down at the heel...
Every particle that flakes off of a non-hardened gear eventually goes through every bearing in the transmission and damages the bearings irreparably. |
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46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)
U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.) U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it. |
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4815 |
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It is a long input transmission from a Willys truck. The only running Jeeps I have are standard CJs with four cylinders, so I don't have anything I can run it in unless I swap out the input shaft.
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Joe Friday
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 26 Dec. 2010 Location: Jeep Central Status: Offline Points: 3633 |
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Or, don't some of the old chevy v8 to t90 adapters use the long shaft? or v6 to t90?
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Oldpappy
Member Joined: 09 Apr. 2018 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 4815 |
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Yes.
I have a couple of those adaptors, as well as a 1971 Jeep one piece bell housing that has been drilled and tapped for a T90 so would work with either a T90 or what came in the Dauntless. When those bell housings were available from the Jeep dealers there must have been a lot of conversions using them as I have owned two Jeeps, a M38, and a CJ5 standard that had been converted to a V6 using those bells. You need the long input shaft for that too.
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If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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