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Reverse lock up clutch dis-engaged

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TooMany2As View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 July 2017 at 9:52pm
I have been really scratching my head on this one. T90 in a 46 2A has been driven for years, now when I put it in reverse it moves OK but when I push in the clutch the Jeep stops suddenly and is locked up (won't move forward or backward). This is independent of the distance driven in reverse. If I then let the clutch out again it will move in reverse but if I again press the clutch pedal it will again lock up. Putting the transmission in neutral (or any other gear) alleviates the issue. Forward gears all behave fine. 

I have checked and even swapped out the shift tower, no change. Drained the gear oil,ran a magnet in the case and found nothing (in the case or the oil). Looked at the synchros, all present and in correct position.

There was a post here in 2008 (BoBCJ2A) with these exact symptoms but there was no resolution on that thread. 

I sure appreciate any help or suggestions.

P.S. my apologies for initially posting in the FAQ section, I misunderstood which section the button went to and thus clicked the wrong button.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 4:57pm
Steve,

- Locks up when in reverse with the clutch in and no other time - 

Any update on your reversing problem with the 1946?  After rereading your post - dose this happen every time you depress the clutch in reverse?  If is intermittent is there excessive ware on the shaft that the reversing gear rids on?  It sounds like something is binding.  The only in reverse thing is weird and takes most of the rest of the transmission, clutch, pilot bushing out of the solution ideas.  

Just wondering what you found.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooMany2As Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 5:24pm
Hi Stev,

It is every time in reverse. I removed the shift tower and pushed it back and forth in reverse with clutch depressed. It rolls forward fine but locks when Jeep pushed backward. This was a week ago and I am on the road now, but it seemed like the synchronizer assembly was acting like a ratchet. (again, clutch depressed, in reverse gear).

I'll be back next week and I am going to confirm and then tear into that assembly. I'll be out of touch the rest of this week, backpacking with the family in the Northern Cascades!

Steve


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeeWilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 5:54pm
It could be a brake problem. I have had it happen on my truck and it was one of the rear brake shoes broken and making a wedge affect against the drum. It would move forward ok but a short distance in reverse it would lock up.

   Jim
47 CJ2A (Ranch Hand) 48 CJ2A, 48 Willys truck, T3C 3782, M274 (Military Mule)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 7:57pm
Jim and Steve,

You are both describing something acting like a  one-way pawl.  What could do that when the clutch is depressed in reverse but not when the Jeep is moving in reverse.  The brake would drag all of the time in reverse.  The syncro I don't know enough about to know if they could act different when power was removed.  (hoping a transmission expert might jump in there).  I almost seems like something that would have to stall out when not powered - a really warn gear perhaps. 
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unkamonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 8:37pm
I would also check to be sure that your pinion gears are properly set up. If they get out of alignment they can do some strange things as they bind up.
uncamonkey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 9:30pm
The more I think about Steve problem it is really odd. 

The Jeep drives fine going forward.
The Jeep coasts going forward with the clutch in fine.
The Jeep drives fine in reverse.
The Jeep locks up if he depresses the clutch going in reverse.  But it can be gotten to work by pushing the clutch in again (almost sounds like double clutching) or shifting to another gear.

Think about what is changing: 
- Under engine power, the transmission works fine in forward and reverse.
- The transmission will free spin when being dragged by the drive line with the clutch depressed rolling forward.
- The Jeep (edited from transmission) will lock up when when being dragged by the drive line with the clutch depressed rolling rearward(assuming pressing the clutch again is happening once the momentum is gone to free things up).


This is actually a pretty cool problem for the CJ2A Page - we spend most of our time just telling people the same thing - Fire, Fuel,Compression,timing - coolant leak, flow, temperature, gasket leak, crack - and so on.  This is something new - at least for know.


Edited by Stev - 22 Aug. 2017 at 11:48pm
Stev
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 11:19pm
Stev said: "Think about what is changing: 
- Under engine power, the transmission works fine in forward and reverse.
- The transmission will free spin when being dragged by the drive line with the clutch depressed rolling forward.
- The transmission will lock up when when being dragged by the drive line with the clutch depressed rolling rearward(assuming pressing the clutch again is happening once the momentum is gone to free things up)."
 (Bolding mine) We don't know at this point that it is the transmission that is binding up. Let's not assume anything, that's not a part of proper diagnosis.  BW
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug. 2017 at 11:46pm
Ok I will edit my post.

Added  to this post - But Steve does say that it can be elevated by depressing the clutch or shifting the transmission.  He also gives the impression the CJ2A is stopped - So what other than the transmission and clutch are in the possible solution set?


Edited by Stev - 23 Aug. 2017 at 12:06am
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug. 2017 at 2:23am
Embarrassed OK, my turn.
Steve said:" Putting the transmission in neutral (or any other gear) alleviates the issue. Forward gears all behave fine."
  That would tend to narrow it down some.  BW
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooMany2As Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep. 2017 at 4:19pm
Hi Guys,

Been out of town for a while but I finally spent some more time on this. New info: it appears that the issue is at the joint between the input shaft and the main shaft. With the clutch depressed, trans in reverse, pushing the Jeep forward the shafts spin opposite (as they should) but I am noticing a clicking or kncokcing and can see a slight jump in the joint. When I then push backward on the Jeep that joint locks.

It appears that something is out of place in there and acting like a ratchet. I think this might explain why the symptom only appears when rolling backward as this is the only time that the joint rotates in this direction.

I plan to start disassembly tomorrow and will report what I find. 

Thanks all,

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waterglyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2020 at 10:26pm
What did you find?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdNormandy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2020 at 8:30pm
Similar problem on my 48 CJ2A.  What did you find was causing your issues?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jw60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2020 at 11:26pm
I had something similar happen after a rebuild last year. In my case the replacement parts and worn original parts allowed the needle bearings between the input and mainshaft to bind when the main shaft tried to go in reverse to the input. I beleave I shimmed the mainshaft to resolve the issue.

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