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Starter or solenoid not working?

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ajax25 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 June 2022 at 9:59pm
Ok you guys were awesome last time with my wiring issues so I’m back with another question. When I turn the key to on it shows my battery is working. When I turn the key to start it all I get is a hum noise coming from the solenoid which is separate from the starter not attached. Does that mean that my starter isn’t working or is it the solenoid? I tried the old trick of banging on the starter and no dice. After driving it to run a few errands the last place I stopped it decided not to start back up. Had to push start it to get it going so I could make it home the other day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CMCSSeabee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2022 at 10:27pm
Sounds like the solenoid. Obviously check all wiring/connections first. Check voltage at solenoid activation post with the key in the crank position. Should be within 1 volt of battery voltage.

Jump across the solenoid with a heavy piece of metal or cable and see if it cranks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2022 at 12:05am
As hinted at above, it could be a very low battery, or a bad connection somewhere between the battery & the starter, or both. A bad connection may prevent the generator/alternator from charging the battery. Do not forget to check the grounding connections both to the frame, the body, & the engine. All connections need to be clean!

Now if the Jeep is still 6 volts, the battery & starter cables may be too small. I live where it can get fairly cold, so I use OO sized cables. My friend who lives in Florida uses O sized cables. Some folks say that #2 sized cables work fine. They do not work fine at anything below 15 F. This I know from personal experience.

IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2022 at 12:30am
  Before you do anything else, clean your battery terminal connections. Take the cables off and clean inside the cable clamps and clean the posts. If you’ve got any of those farmer (or Bubba) clamp-on replacement cable clamps, replace the entire cable, following cpt loggers advice. 
BW 
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2022 at 1:30am
When it comes to battery cables BIGGER IS BETTER I have a 12V system and use 0 grade cables I also have the same for my Chassis to Engine Grounds. As well as separate grounds on almost everything in the vehicle. I also put a Series 31 950CCA battery in thats so big I had to modify the inner fender and built a heavy duty battery tray to carry its 61 lbs. And a 105amp Alternator to juice it up with.

Pushing a jeep to start is for high school kids out to late I'm way to old for that sh*t.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2022 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Mark W. Mark W. wrote:

Pushing a jeep to start is for high school kids out to late I'm way to old for that sh*t.

 That's what the hand crank is for....
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2022 at 10:50pm
Yup, I push started mine more than once in HS. Fortunately flat or downhill with my buds. Was and still is 6v. (Hear that Don?) Would love to have the hand crank in the tool box.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2022 at 10:56pm
Even when I was in HS, I always parked it on a hill. When It needed a tuneup, I used a long hill. Yes, I am lazy!

These days I fix the problems. Yet, I still almost always park pointed out & down hill if possible. Old habits die hard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 11:11am
Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

Even when I was in HS, I always parked it on a hill. When It needed a tuneup, I used a long hill. Yes, I am lazy!

These days I fix the problems. Yet, I still almost always park pointed out & down hill if possible. Old habits die hard.

Yep.  Been there, done that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 11:29am
Originally posted by ajax25 ajax25 wrote:

Ok you guys were awesome last time with my wiring issues so I’m back with another question. When I turn the key to on it shows my battery is working. When I turn the key to start it all I get is a hum noise coming from the solenoid which is separate from the starter not attached. Does that mean that my starter isn’t working or is it the solenoid? I tried the old trick of banging on the starter and no dice. After driving it to run a few errands the last place I stopped it decided not to start back up. Had to push start it to get it going so I could make it home the other day. 

Smart move to ensure all connections are clean.  Nothing will fix this if the connections are "insulated" with crud.  Agree with Seabee.  Have you tried to jump across the solenoid to bypass (sending current directly to the starter without switch input)?

I remember similar, by ear, diagnoses to differentiate between solenoid and starter but the hum is a new one.  You're sure it's not the starter spinning without engaging the bendix?

The hammer on the starter has been "hit and miss" with me as it needs to be able to jostle the armature to make intermittent contact with the brushes to get the starter to turn (almost a last-ditch-effort when all else fails).   I think if there's enough wear on those parts, even a series of solid smacks won't help. 

My go-to was always park on a hill, "just in case."
Rus Curtis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajax25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 4:12pm
Hadn’t had a chance to work on it this week so I just threw the trickle charger on it last night. Went out this morning turned the key and it fired right up. First thought now is I just need a new battery but that doesn’t make sense because it should have charged while I was driving it for a good hr before it quit on me the other day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajax25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 4:15pm
I guess I could be a bad connection as mentioned earlier. It’s a brand new positive cable from the battery to the solenoid and I have cleaned both terminals. Maybe it’s the connection from the solenoid to the starter and the alternator? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TERRY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 4:45pm
I got to tell you the bad news. Those clamp battery terminals are bad, and that does not appear to be a large enough cable. The solenoid does not affect charging. 
BOULDER 48 2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajax25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 4:51pm
Oh sh*t just realized I posted the wrong pic lol I have replaced the battery cable 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 4:53pm
  That doesn’t look like a “brand new positive cable” to me. Im hoping that this is an old picture, taken before you replaced the cable. 

  “ The solenoid does not affect charging.”  Not normally, but with a rat’s nest like that, who can be sure?
BW 

  Embarrassed I was typing while you were posting. LOL


Edited by Bruce W - 05 June 2022 at 4:54pm
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajax25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2022 at 4:57pm
Posting with my phone sometimes it’s hard to find the right pic they are huge and aren’t labeled as anything specific when uploaded. Here is the right one…I think lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2022 at 1:48am
OK, a couple of things, the first is those connections are not clean. The entire connection should be bright & shiny like the new cable is. Use a wire brush or sandpaper on all the metal connectors & the posts on the solenoid.

Those two smaller wires coming out of the black plastic connectors with the embossed "16" on them, are they fusible links from the regulator perhaps? If not where do they go? What the heck do they feed?

This is a 12 volt system right? I see a 12 volt battery & an alternator but alternators come in both 6 & 12 volts varieties. Yes, I have seen where a 12 volt battery was installed in a 6 volt system, it does not charge very well.

The red wire coming from the alternator has a yellow butt connector, are either of the wires coming out of the butt connector loose? Heck, are any of the connections to the alternator loose or corroded?

That new positive cable still looks kind of small to me. It might work for a 12 volt system in warmer climes. What size is it? What size is the cable from the solenoid to the starter? The blue ground cable from the battery to the frame or engine block is what size? It looks to be one size smaller than the positive cable, it should not be. Are the last two cables in need of replacement? Are they frayed or corroded? All the cables from the battery to the starter including the ground cable should be the same size, otherwise the smallest cable is limiting the amperage that the entire system can carry.

Enough questions for now. IHTH, Cpt Logger.
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