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Sticker Shock on Paint

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jgodfrey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jgodfrey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sticker Shock on Paint
    Posted: 23 June 2021 at 10:09am
I received notification that my SGI body will be shipping today or tomorrow.  Now, that means to Peter Debella's, not it's final destination here in Minnesota.

Still, I am excited to make more progress, so I start looking into costs to have it painted.  I will be using my original windshield, hood, and grill, but they will be ready for paint before all the parts go to the body shop.

I am stunned at the costs I am being quoted to paint this Jeep.  I have had a lot of body work done to cars over the years.  Living in Minnesota the salt literally eats our cars, so I've had cars that needed a lot of rust repair, as well as cars that have hit deer, been backed into, etc.  Each of these included considerable body work, paint matching, buffing, and blending that this Jeep will not need.  Maybe a few tack welds to level off etc., but this is not a show Jeep.  Prime and paint it please.  That's it.

I am curious, before I put some of these quotes in here, what others have seen from shops with a similar situation as me.  Essentially all new metal to work with, not tons of hours in labor to straighten, hammer, pull, things back to where they should be.

Thanks
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Oldpappy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 10:45am
Yes, I understand the "sticker shock" but good paint is expensive nowadays.

The paint my buddy recommends which is an epoxy primer with a poly top coat, is almost $400 a gallon retail. Since he is in the business he can get me a little better price.

If you want to go with a single stage enamel as was originally used that is a good bit cheaper, but it won't hold up as well.

When you spread the cost over the time you expect to keep the Jeep, it doesn't seem so bad. 

The original paint on my CJ5 has faded from "President Red" to a dull orange color and that Jeep spent the last 42 years in a barn, so most of the fading occurred in the 12 years it was in service and sat outdoors. I want my Jeeps to still look good when my grandson's inherit them, so I will spend the extra money to buy the best paint I can get for them. 


Edited by Oldpappy - 23 June 2021 at 10:49am
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nofender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 10:49am
painting parts and pieces is always going to be pricey. I assume you would deliver a tub and parts to be done. 

Labor rates for insurance jobs are $50-60 an hour. Non--insurance may be higher as the ins companies are always looking for volume discounts. 

Figure you have to tie up a booth longer to do the tub and bottom of a tub - unless they have a rotisserie. But setting up a rotisserie takes time. So you end up paying either way. 

I have several body shops doing work on our trucks and I can attest to the fact that prices have been steadily climbing for a year - labor and materials are through the roof. 

If it gives you any idea, I hit a deer last fall in a 2019 Ram. some front end damage, headight, etc, few dents on the side. The ins paid $15k to fix it. Yep. I was shocked too. 

Curious what they are quoting you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 10:52am
My wife's car got hit a couple weeks ago. Only damage is to the lip of the driver side fender. Body shop estimate was over $1500.00, and the insurance paid it right away. 
If you can't get there in a Jeep you don't need to be there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 10:57am
I feel your pain (sort of), I got a quote for paint materials for my jeep project and it was $600! This is for a gallon and a half of the lowest level urethane, reducer, and catalyst. Paint materials have gotten crazy outrageous in recent years. My brother is doing a job on a customer's vintage Impala and materials for that project are $2500!

Also this is skilled work that professionals like to get paid to perform. If you are going through a shop for this work, you are paying for the overhead of the business. Maybe you could find someone local to you that does this work at their home.

Your tub, although new, will be painted inside, outside, and underneath- this is a bit of work to paint and have it turn out well; and will take time which = $.  I'm still figuring out a plan for spraying mine in this fashion.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 1:08pm
Good paint has always been more expensive and paints nowadays are better than ever. They last longer, perform better and don't lose their color as soon as the enamels and lacquers of 40 years ago.

As Otto pointed out, when you go to a body shop you are paying for the paint and that shop's overhead and profit.

I recall when I operated a driveline shop I quoted a price for a new stub and yoke on a driveshaft at about $130 which also included two new u-joint kits. All the components were genuine Spicer parts. (this has been several years back). The guy I quoted the cost of the job to wigged out at the cost and ask me what my labor rate was. I said I was charging one hours time for the job and my labor rate was $45 an hour. (like I said, it's been a several years ago). He said, "You make $45 an hour!" At the time I was taking home out of the business just a little over minimum wage, maybe $7.00 an hour. I told him that the $45 an hour covered the cost of rent and insurance on the shop, utilities, taxes, supplies used, and depreciation on over $25,000 worth of tools and specialized equipment that it takes to competently repair driveshafts. He told me he could get it done cheaper at a welding shop. He never understood what it takes to operate a business.

I'm sure he did get it done cheaper at the welding shop and I often wondered later how satisfied he was with the work.

My reputation was on the line every time I repaired or constructed a new driveshaft so nothing went out the shop door that wasn't done to generally accepted industry practice. Sure, I lost some business from potential customers that thought they knew how to repair a driveshaft better than I did, but there is nothing like good word of mouth advertising about quality repair work. Yes, the other side of the coin was people running their mouth about how expensive my work was. You only have to have one failure of a driveshaft to ruin you and your customers whole day. I worked on hundreds of driveshafts in the 18 years I was in business and I am not aware of any failures.

Consider the price you pay for bodywork and stretch the cost out over the reasonable life expectancy of your jeep. If you have a competent body shop do the work, you are probably paying a reasonable price.

Paint is expensive, the person doing the work is expecting a reasonable wage for their efforts, the cost of overhead isn't getting any cheaper. That's the situation from the shop owner's viewpoint...

...on the other hand you could do it yourself. You will need all kinds of supplies for body prep, a big enough air compressor to power the paint gun you are going have to buy. Cleaning materials for the paint gun. A place to apply the paint that won't allow dust contamination on the finished job. Personal protective equipment so that you are not breathing toxic fumes. Time and patience to do the job.

Your choice, your jeep.

I sincerely hope that you have a good turnout on your jeep project regardless of how you resolve your paint job. To me, the fun was not in working on the jeep, it was driving it. On and off road...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 1:33pm
Now for a bad idea: July is hot - the enamel paint is not that crazy expensive and they used it in the 1940s.  Some people have painted the sheet metal from their old Jeeps on saw horses outback on a hot day and let it sit for a week.  Some people have this as a plan for this summer probably.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JohnB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 4:45pm
I painted my jeep last year in my garage. Paint was single stage urethane over epoxy primer. Paint was from TCP Global and was not cheap. I had painted a couple cars in the past and had an idea of what it took and how big a project it is. 
While it's "just a jeep" I would say prep and painting all 6 sides of the jeep tub and under the dash and inside the toolbox is more challenging than painting the outside of a sedan. And then you have the hood, fenders, windshield, tailgate and many small parts that are body color. Of course you want an excellent looking paint job. 
My only point is no matter who paints your jeep - it's a big job, requires space - good materials and equipment are not cheap.
Good luck on your project!


Edited by JohnB - 23 June 2021 at 4:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 6:32pm
Something that I failed to mention before: if the shop that you are requesting an estimate from is geared more towards collision repair, you WILL receive a high $$$ estimate in hopes of scaring you off without admitting they really don't want to paint your jeep parts. This happened all the time in the shops I worked in, because doing insurance paid collision work is so much more lucrative than restoration work that drags on forever, taking up valuable real estate inside the shop. Some might take on a resto project, but just for fill-in work during the slow times which means your parts may sit there for many months.

If your only option is to take your parts to a shop, try to seek out firms that do resto work or complete paints rather than collision repair. From my experience there exists two different worlds; collision guys hate resto work, and the resto guys couldn't make a living flat rate.

It's a skilled profession that treats it's people shabbily so the chances of finding someone to paint your stuff "on the side" are fairly good. Then there's always the Earl Schieb, Miracle, Maaco type shops that are capable of spraying paint, but not known for good prep work. 

Or, DIY...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 7:47pm
Hadn't thought of the "Earl Schieb" and "Maaco" shops in years, but back when I was still a youngster I backed into my older brother's new Pinto wagon with my old Chevy and trashed the passenger side fender.

I didn't have much money in those days, so he let me off easy. I bought a fender from a junk yard, did the prep myself and took it to the local "Maaco" shop with the old fender, and the paint code from the car so they could try to match the color.

They did a very good job with it, and after I mounted the fender my brother was satisfied with the work, but they weren't known for good prep work. A friend took his car in for a paint job after he saw that Pinto, and they didn't mask things off very well, there was overspray on the grill, the windows, and the door handles. Their prices were dirt cheap, for a reason. I didn't know such shops still existed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 8:13pm
1947 CJ2A 106327, Engine J109205, Tub 97077. Luzon Red

https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/steelyard-blues_topic41024_post397981.html?KW=micah+movie#397981

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kinnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 9:17pm
I replaced the quarter panels on my son's truck and had MAACO paint the bed only.   I did all the prep, they just scuffed it and painted it.  I was very happy with the results and the price was very reasonable.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 June 2021 at 9:20pm
Sticker shock on paint? Really? We ain't seen nothing yet.

That cracks me up. It really do. Too funny!

Good luck out there!


Edited by Ron D - 23 June 2021 at 9:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pope891 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2021 at 8:25am
I am in the industrial paint business, so let me help you here.

Find your local rep on this website: http://https://tnemec.com/find-sales-rep/find-rep-us/

We are all interested in corrosion protection, which means an epoxy primer(s) and polyurethane topcoat(s).

The products you want are: 

Tnemec Series 161 TnemeFascure primer with #4 thinner 

Tnemec Series 1095 EnduraShield with #10 thinner (semi gloss, available in any color) 

Technical data sheets are on our website on the link above.  You can apply the primer and topcoat in as many coats as you want.  I did two coats of epoxy and two coats of topcoat.  When you order, just tell them you are painting an old jeep and you were told to order this stuff from a friend.  Tell them this is a shop application so that local VOC laws do not apply.

These coatings are primarily designed for steel in exterior environments.  However, we are not in the car business.  I sprayed my jeep in my single car garage in November with a Harbor Freight HVLP gun.

I hope this saves you a few bucks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 June 2021 at 9:37am
Kirker automotive and fleet paint. Or buy it through Summit Racing as their house brand. My total materials cost was around $600.

2 coats high build primer

2 coats+ of Epoxy sealer

5 coats pf single stage Urethane wet sanded and buffed Meguires 105 and 205 on HF foam pads.

HF spray gun and Altrade Detail gun. in my garage.




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