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T-18 Conversion |
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Fltfndr 
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Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 796 |
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 Topic: T-18 ConversionPosted: 29 Oct. 2017 at 3:47am |
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Looking for a 4WD shop with flat fender experience in Iowa or contiguous states that can do a T-18 installation in my 2A. I am just getting too old to start this project. Please PM me.
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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oldtime
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2017 at 3:28pm |
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John,
Frankly I expect the best qualified installers will likely be some one who frequents one of these jeep forums. I know your rig is pretty far from flat fender standards. But I forget all that's been changed.
Correct me if I'm mistaken. It basically has 1968-1970 Dauntless drive train. It has Dauntless, T14 with #9774035 bell housing and I suppose the matching big hole D18 @ 2,46 ratio. If your up for answering questions we can determine more precisely what all will be required to install a T18. Does your rig have a name ? Let's start with features directly related to the frame......... 1) Is this a CJ-2A, M38 frame or CJ-3 frame or other ? 2) Homemade engine brackets right ? 3) Engine currently sets at slight angle in the frame... Right ? 4) Is rear engine support (transmission) cross member still mounted in standard location ? 5) Standard pedal pivots or other ? 6) You have a modified master cylinder bracket mounted to the frame ? 7) Typical "Lever and Tube" clutch control or other ? 8) Custom Saginaw power steering brackets right ? 9) Spring pivots were moved to accept Holbrook long leafs... Right ? 10) Any other frame changes ? |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Fltfndr
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Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 796 |
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2017 at 6:37pm |
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Ken, Hope these are the answers you are needing:
Yes it is basically a stock 68-70 drive train, Dauntless V6, two piece bellhousing, T-14, T-18 TC Rig has no name at this time Stock 2A frame Motor Mounts are from AA Engine is sitting at a slight angle as Motor Mounts (AA) are offset to the drivers side about 1 inch Rear crossmember is in stock location, but T/C mount had be modified to move assembly rearward about 1 inch due to the T-14 Pedal pivots are standard but brake pedal has been bent to clear engine Master Cylinder is a Wilwood mounted in stock position and remote reservoirs Standard lever and tube clutch linkage Power Steering Box Mount is 3 hole AA . steering previously was manual Spring pivots are stilll in stock location but not used. Holbrook spring pivots are mounted approx 8-10 inches to the rear No other frame changes except boxed the front frame to support PS box and notching the front crossmember to facilitate PS hoses Let me know what else you need. If you have a rear adapter, is there a way to get the correct mainshaft or am I on the hook for the $500 kit from Novak?
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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oldtime
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Posted: 30 Oct. 2017 at 7:49pm |
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John, I sent you a PM about Jeep mainshaft and adapter plate so contact Mike right away before he sells to someone else.
Info is perfect. That's some of the stuff we need to know. Yes there are other questions.... 1) Is body higher than standard ? Like maybe setting on on 1" thick rubber blocks ? 2) Is T14 shift cane currently centered in the standard floor cover opening ? 3) What is clearance distance from left rear valve cover to firewall ? 4) Standard radiator or ??? 5) Have a radiator shroud ? 6) Was grille tunnel previously shortened any ? 7) Fan to radiator clearance ? 8) I forget Dana 25, 27 or 30 ? 9) Is D18 a single stick transfer case or has it been converted to twin sticks ? 10) Are propeller shafts still standard length ? Edited by oldtime - 30 Oct. 2017 at 8:05pm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Fltfndr
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Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 796 |
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 4:45am |
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Body was originally placed on 1 " pucks, now have collapsed to maybe 1/2" Shift Cane is centered in stock location Driverside valve cover clearance is 1/2" at outside of valve cover. Firewall indent adds additional space Radiator is 66-68 Mustang mounted to grille shell like a 3A No radiator shroud grille tunnel stock length and position 1 3/4 " fan to radiator clearance Dana 25 with ll " brakes and Power Lock Stock dual T/C levers driveshafts are stock length
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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48cj2a
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 10:58am |
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I see there might be some parts available in a PM but can you at least talk to what one would look for in part outs or junk yard treasures?
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Art C USAF (Retired)
47 CJ2A #134955 Project 48 CJ2A #206759 62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900 45 T3-C #191 Project http://www.bantamt3c.com http://www.48cj2a.com |
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oldtime
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 4:13pm |
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OK John excellent reply..... that's pretty much what I figured that you had.
As you know your drive train will become a little bit longer than it is right now. Transmission plus adapter length is presently 11.5/16" and will become 12-7/8". That's 1-9/16" longer than it is right now. So the power train length will become a tight fit into the engine bay. For starters you will need to correct the angle of the engine as it currently sets crooked in the bay. The present crooked angle is due to the fact that you went from standard engine offset of 2-1/2" to Dauntless engine offset which is 1" left of frame center line. This all implies that the transmission and transfer case shift holes will need to be relocated 1-1/2" toward the right side. Furthermore the fore/aft positioning of the floor pan shift holes will become effected by the T18 shift tower. In other words a custom floor pan becomes mandatory. Not only that but the rear engine support cross member AKA transmission cross member will need to be modified at the very least. Ideally a special cross member should be formed whenever power train modifications are made. Rear engine support cross members are effected by the specific engines, transmission and transfer cases being installed. Believe it or not you can and really should retain the standard propeller shafts. Simply because the fore /aft placement of the transfer case already exists in the ideal location for this particular power train combination. Not sure about your master cylinder configuration but you may need to convert to 1967 -1971 CJ split master cylinder mounting. bracket. Likewise the Saginaw mount and intermediate linkage may need to be changed some . This is unknown due to present location of the mounting. The ideal fan to radiator clearance is generally 1" . And maybe 1-1/2" on a jeep due to frame flex. The exact distance becomes more important without a shroud. The Dauntless fan will move foreward some and it ends up touching a standard 2A radiator. Again that's actually a good thing. So you need to mount the radiator foreward from standard. To accomplish this the grille pre-shroud is trimmed foreward about 1"to 1-1/2" and reformed. When the pre-shroud is trimmed foreward it simultaneously moves the radiator somewhat toward the right side. That's exactly ideal because the Dauntless engine itself was also moved to the right. Exhaust rerouting is the final concern. IMHO you will be best served to set this all up on some other 3A/3B/M38 frame.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Fltfndr
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Joined: 01 Nov. 2013 Location: Clive, IA Status: Offline Points: 796 |
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 6:29pm |
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Ken,
I was completely unaware that this conversion would entail possibly relocating so many componets. I thought that the two main changes would be cross member relocation and floor pan modification. It seems that this plan would entail a complete rebuild of the entire drivetrain,radiator, brakes, etc. This is way beyond what my plans were. I have a ton of money and time to get what I have now, a well built, good performing trail jeep. I will rebuild my D-18 and add a Terralow and count on a strap or winch to get me through the tough spots. Your comments are much appreciated
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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Fltfndr
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 6:41pm |
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Ken, a couple more thoughts. Your design seems to center on keeping the front and rear drive shafts the exact same length, thus the reason for engine bay clearance, radiator and grille shell location, as well as exhaust and master cylinder locations.
I guess I did not see a problem with changing drive shaft lengths. I understand now your thoughts on starting over with a different jeep, but certainly not worth completely rebuilding mine.
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Fltfndr
1948 CJ2A Restomod "Six Pac" The object of war is not to die for your country, but make the other bastard die for his. George S. Patton |
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oldtime
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 7:48pm |
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John, Not sure If I was clear.
The Fore/Aft positioning of the engine supersedes the placement of the transfer case which thereby effect propeller shaft lengths. I keep the propeller shafts at standard lengths only because it optimally positions the engine fore/aft. With all builds the selection and placement of certain component assemblies need be prioritized. It is by this method that one is able to produce a complete and synchronous system. That's exactly why I say model and vintage selection is primary concern and to be followed by engine selection and so on via specific sequence. I suppose guess one might consider moving the drivetrain toward the rear. It would have to go back roughly 1-9/16" from present location. Unless the power train is inline to the frame the diagonal offset may get kinda weird when transfer case is moved back. ??? In other words the Dana 18 output moves more toward the left. Yeah i agree, compromise and go to Tera Flex gears ............... Not as effective but vastly simplifies things. Art, Primarily one must locate a viable Borg Warner T98 or T18 transmission . Jeep T98-A (1956-1971) is the only sensible choice for mating to Willys 134 engines. T98-A was the original rock crawling transmission and still remains as one of the very best to-date. For T98 to Willys applications I recommend this: https://cj3b.info/Tech/T98A.html Be it IH, Ford or Jeep version ... Know that they all should be rebuilt . Each make will present certain problems depending on engine selection and transfer case. Narrow Ratio (NR) and Wide Ratio (WR) refers to the basic gear variance or SPAN from Low to High. All T-98's are WR. T-18's can be had in either WR or NR configuration. All WR T98 will have 17 tooth maindrive gears. Low gear = 6.40 ratio All WR T18 will have 17 tooth maindrive gears. Low gear = 6.32 ratio. All NR T18 will have 23 tooth maindrive gears. Low gear = 4.02/1 ratio The maindrive gears (input shafts) come in many different lengths with ability to accommodate many various bell housing depths and adapter plates. IH, Ford and Jeep all use distinct transmission case to bellhousing patterns. The case fronts will often require either adapter plates or other modification depending on the bell pattern and depth. For short wheelbase Jeeps we strive for the shortest feasible drive train length. Mating the transmission without front adapters is the ultimate goal ! Some Jeep transfer case adapter plates fit the small hole cases @ 3-5/32" index bore. Others fit big hole transfer cases @ 4" index bore Transfer case adapter plates are mandatory for all D-18 and D-20 transfer cases.. Besides all T98/18 must be mounted to the rear engine support crossmember via the adapter plate. T18 transmission cases have no other crossmember mountings. The normal Jeep insulator is # 912721. Transfer case insulators depends upon D18 vs D20 insulators. IH In general the IH front case pattern case will not fit anything but an IH bellhousing.. So with IH you may be best to scrap the transmission case and use some other . The IH rear adapter plate looks almost identical to Jeep plate. However the IH adapter plate is clocked so that the transfer case is setting at an angle. The solution would be to re-drill the adapter plate. Or re-clock it. JEEP The Jeep T98/18 transmission pattern does not fit GM nor BOP bells. Over the years Jeep T18 alone used about 2 dozen different maindrive gears depending on specific application. Either one must use a long "stickout" maindrive with adapter plate or modify the front of the transmission case. T18 can be made to mate direct to Dauntless BOP pattern via case welding / drilling modifications. Doing so requires one to use the very shortest of Jeep maindrives. This particular maindrive has 7-3/8" "stickout" and measures exactly 10" OAL. It is a 1-1/16" diameter ten spline maindrive. Most all other Jeep T18 maindrives were 1-1/8" diameter ten spline. This short Jeep maindrive was used on CJ's from 1977 through 1979 Most but not all Jeep T98/18 will bolt direct to a Dana "Texas pattern" transfer case. An exception would be the M715 T98 because it was originally mated to a seperate transfer case. FORD The Ford T98's mostly used 1-3/16" diameter maindrive gears; so it may be advisable to shay away from that potential problem. And again the Ford T18 bell pattern will only fit the ford bell pattern.. However the front of Ford case can be re-drilled to accept GM pattern bell housing. With Ford T18 there is no need for frontal case welding. IMHO thats the biggest advantage to using the Ford T18. The standard Ford stick out is 6-1/2" and works well with Dauntless BOP / and other GM pattern bells. Problem is that Ford T18 was never mated direct to "Texas pattern" transfer case. So an adapter plate must be sourced. The rear of the Ford T18 transmission case must be drilled and tapped to accept the adapter plate. Obviously then the original holes at rear of case must be plugged. The Ford transmission output mainshaft must be removed and replaced with either Jeep or IH mainshaft. In this fashion the Ford can then be mated to a Texas pattern transfer case. Mixing and matching of internal transmission component from one make / model to another is a distinct concern. Best left to those with extensive rebuild experience. Edited by oldtime - 31 Oct. 2017 at 8:07pm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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windyhill
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 9:56pm |
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it looks complicated on paper, but the T18 is great!, you can use your bell housing, and tranfer case, drive shafts etc. you can get most of the little stuff you need from as stock v6 cj5 donor. Get the t18 from a Ford truck. Good info from others here. T14 is less then stout, with lower transfer case gears and a v6 I'd definitely go t18.
Edited by windyhill - 31 Oct. 2017 at 9:58pm |
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'48 CJ2A
'53 CJ3B '59 CJ6 '65 CJ5 '67 CJ5 |
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oldtime
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Posted: 31 Oct. 2017 at 11:13pm |
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Hey John I think I forgot to mention a critical detail about Tera Low gear sets.
The Tera Flex mainshaft (transfer case drive ) gears are all 6 spline. You have that T14 with oddball 10 spline maindrive shaft. The only way to use T14 in front of Tera Low transfer case is by way of Warn/Saturn 25% O.D unit. First you have to have the 10 spline O.D. unit that fits behind a T14 transmission. Furthermore you have to convert the 10 spline OD unit to mate with Tera low gears. That means it needs to have Tera Low compatible O.D. bowl gear installed in place of 29 tooth bowl gear. If you go this route you buy the TL 3 gear set plus a separate $400 bowl gear. Otherwise the Tera Low is a "No Go" with T14 . Whew we. Hope you got all that stuff ...... Edited by oldtime - 31 Oct. 2017 at 11:20pm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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oldtime
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Posted: 01 Nov. 2017 at 8:42pm |
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So John are those AA engine brackets adjustable ?
Then perhaps the transfer case can be swung over an inch and a half to line it all up straight with the frame.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Lee MN
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Posted: 02 Nov. 2017 at 12:41am |
Why not have the 6 spline gear resplined to match the T14's mainshaft ? Lee 
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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oldtime
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Posted: 02 Nov. 2017 at 1:17am |
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Basically because one would have to add metal just to fill the void of the wide 6 spline grooves.
I think filling the void areas would be easy using brass. Then have to index and re-cut it all to 10 splines. These gears are case hardened down to about 3/32" deep. Can be done but very few machinists would ever attempt it. Not sure if maybe Herm has a Tera Low to T14 solution or not ??? I just happened to think of the fact that i have never before seen nor heard of a 10 spline Tera Flex mainshaft gear. (AKA transfer case drive gear)
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Lee MN
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Joined: 13 Aug. 2008 Location: Harris, MN Status: Online Points: 4954 |
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Posted: 02 Nov. 2017 at 2:29am |
In the past, I've had similar work done at a gear manufacturer, they would aneal the gear, weld up and recut, or make another center, then re harden, it can be done. Lee
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LEE
44 GPW-The Perfected Willys 49 2A “If you wait, you only get older” 67 M715 American Made Rolling History |
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Joe Friday
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Posted: 02 Nov. 2017 at 3:52am |
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Advance Adapters sells the teralow gears and the special overdrive bowl gear as a package.
As far as the 10 spline overdrive part, I have a good used one, I'll trade you even for your 6 spline.
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48cj2a
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Posted: 02 Nov. 2017 at 1:53pm |
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There is also a NOS Warn 10 Spline Planetary HUB on eBay - been there all year as far as I can remember.
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Art C USAF (Retired)
47 CJ2A #134955 Project 48 CJ2A #206759 62 L6226 Station Wagon #58167 10900 45 T3-C #191 Project http://www.bantamt3c.com http://www.48cj2a.com |
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oldtime wrote: