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T-98 / T-18 trans to L134 bellhousing |
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oldtime 
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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 Posted: 26 June 2019 at 3:56pm |
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Len, I spent some time thinking about your stuff and what all I could recall that may be related.
You have a old Ford T98 and an IH with 4.02 gears. The only parts that directly interchange are the shift tower assemblies. The PTO covers, the internal reverse shift lever and the countershaft including the needles. You certainly will need yet another T98 or T18 to make this happen. To mate to any D18 or D20 you must use either the IH or the Jeep 1-3/8" @ 6 spline main shaft. You can use either the T98 or a T18 main shaft and that alone will designate this as either being a T98 or T18 transmission. T98 main shafts all have a much smaller maindrive pilot than do the T18's. You will never mate a T18 main shaft into a T98 maindrive regardless of the pilot needle count/diameter. I suppose it may be possible to reduce the T18 main shaft pilot diameter down to fit into the smaller bore T98 maindrive but you would go through the pilot tip case hardening to remove that much diameter. And besides the T18 mainshaft will never accept the needle rollers to go under the 2nd speed gear. So trying to swap a T18 maindrive into a T98 transmission is totally impractical. From my experience the only internal gears that can be swapped between T18 and T98 is the reverse idler gear. And that swap is very questionable as it must include the correct sliding gear. Yes even the big 1st reverse sliding gears are different. That 1st reverse sliding gear alone is the reason why a T98 has 6.40 ratio while the T18 has a 6.32 ratio. I swapped them around one time a few years back but did not like the way the small gear at rear of the counter shaft mated to the interchanged sliding gear. I felt that particular swap could initiate 1st and reverse problems over time. Got that ? So bottom line is your going to need more parts then you can figure on either building a T98 or a T18 not both. Her's a pic of the very long 1-1/8" diameter T18 maindrive from J truck.  Edited by oldtime - 26 June 2019 at 4:11pm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 04 July 2019 at 6:52pm |
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Ken,
Thank you for assembling your explanation of the differences in the mainshafts between the t-98 and the T-18 / 19's. Ha, I was even doing some snooping the other day looking for a conversion needle-baring that would adapt the larger snout on the T-18 to the hole in the back of the T-98 input shaft to mate the two together. Then _ _ _ as you say, there are Differences where, ( if I am getting this straight ) in the Second-gear syncro-hub and the gear. The gear from one riding directly on the mainshaft, and the other riding on needle bearings on the mainshaft. So, the mainshaft's don't interchange. I can still move the 4:1 t-18 innards to the T-98 case. whew. Omg, I went to haul my flatbed trailer to unload it so I can take possession of the old Hobart welder with the Willy's engine, and my wife told me the trailer came off the ball twice in the yard last week ! The outcome, I broke out that trusty new diamond-blade, and cut-off the 1-7/8" coupler, and welded on a new 2" coupler that I only had bought new 25-years ago, and never installed. Life keeps getting in the way of mucho-progresso, and so forward progress on my transmission project is going SLOW-MO. hahahaha I should have phoned Moser yesterday, but with it being the day before the big 4th of July holiday, I am going to wait until next week for directions of just what all they want me to send them. I am going to have them turn down the 4:1 granny T-18 input to match the little L134 input. Like you mention, after searching in Vain on the net, I cannot seem to find any information anywhere which tells me how to get a D-18 compatible-output mainshaft that will match-up to the T-98 input shaft hole, except one of those extinct and rare outputs that were used originally with the T-98 to D-18. Thank you so much for chiming-in with your knowledge, with hopes this will assist someone else who wishes to attempt this conversion on their own. I am about a 4-hour drive to PartsMike in Aubrun, California, and I think the guy's name I spoke with on the phone was "Dell" and he was very helpful, but I got off the phone somewhat confused with just what interchanges with what. I told Dell, that I would try to set aside enough time in my next visit to Sacramento to drive up to meet him in-person. ( maybe I will drag JeeperJim up there with me for moral-support ) haha I've been tinkering with the welding electrode with good results, but I did discover that the 309L electrode burns nice, but is almost impossible to File. The other electrode that I have tried is the Harris Nic-99, which burns-in good, and have not yet attempted to file it yet. I Did do some finish up work on an exhaust manifold repair that I first welded a replacement 'ear' onto a F-head exhaust manifold, with missing ear, using the Harris Nic-99 electrode. Then I finished-up with brazing rod. OMG, I liked the bronze welding (or brazing, whatever), and easier than using a coat hangar with the Oxy-Acet torches. The bronze dresses-down easy with a file. :) _ _ _ user-friendly. Get this: the brazing rod was about 3/32-inch hollow square tubing filled with flux. This was given to me by an old-guy, who mentioned it was given to him by another old-guy many decades ago. I wonder how old that brazing rod is ? _ _ _ and, now that I have been looking for a 6.32:1 T-18 or 19, I have not seen any locally on Craigslist. Ok, that's it for now until maybe after I get my input shaft sent to Moser for the 4:1. Oh, before I FORGET to mention it: Here is my experience with enjoying a T-18 in my '77 CJ-7 for 34-years. While the T-19 has sycro gears, and my t-18 has a syncro 2-nd gear, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to pull the shifter out of First (granny) to shift into 2-nd gear while Moving forward !! I'm not kidding here. While driving forward and even if letting off the gas pedal, you could put your foot against the dash and pull with all your might, and probably won't be able to pull the shifter hard enough to get out of Granny-Gear until forward momentum STOPS. And, I think the granny-gear is very-user-friendly on Clutch Discs with very little slippage required. I'm getting Anxious yep. :) Len Edited by Greaser007 - 04 July 2019 at 7:00pm |
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otto
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Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Offline Points: 2264 |
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Posted: 04 July 2019 at 8:46pm |
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And, I think the granny-gear is very-user-friendly on Clutch Discs with very little slippage required.
I like to start out in the granny gear with the clutch engaged and just bump the starter if I’m on a hill up a trail. I love having that low gear!
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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jeepsterjim
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Joined: 13 July 2011 Location: lincoln, ca Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Posted: 04 July 2019 at 9:03pm |
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LEN
Have you had the chance to talk with Travis from WFO? Very knowledgeable guys. WFO is above Auburn on 49. Jim
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Jim
CJ-2A - 81299 |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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Posted: 05 July 2019 at 3:45pm |
Correct, I think you got it. So in order to fit this transmission to a Dana a 18 or 20 it must be built either as a T98 6.40 or as a T18 6.32 not both because most parts are too far different between them. That said a few parts still remain as being directly interchangable, having identical part numbers.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 07 Aug. 2019 at 7:33pm |
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jim,
No I have not. Maybe the next time I make a run to Sacto if I can get down early enough, I could throw you in and take you with me and we'll visit WFO. Oh, good news maybe, I drug home the Hobart Welder this morning. I don't have a loader so may have to skid the Hobart off my trailer. It may be ages before I tackle removing the L-134 from it, maybe this winter. |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 07 Aug. 2019 at 8:35pm |
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Ken,
Thank you so much for staying with me on this. For some reason, I just cannot seem to find any accurate information with dimensional differences between the T-98 mainshaft and gears and the T-18 mainshaft and gears. Ken, I am a career draftsman who's brain thinks in a dimensional world. haha And I am just not finding dimensions anywhere other than what my mic shows me. example: O.D. of the mainshaft where 2-nd gear rides. I am understanding the differences that as you say, there is the snout diameter diff on the mainshaft and the hole diff in the driven gear (input shaft) between the T-98 and T-18. Does the Ford T-18 driven gear rear pilot hole accept the Scout T-18 snout on the mainshaft (output shaft) ? on your June 26 thread you mentioned: 1. You can use either the T98 or a T18 main shaft and that alone will designate this as either being a T98 or T18 transmission. 2. And besides the T18 mainshaft will never accept the needle rollers to go under the 2nd speed gear. So trying to swap a T18 maindrive into a T98 transmission is totally impractical. If I have this correct (without looking at a schematic) it is the T-18 that the Second gear rides directly on the mainshaft with No-needle bearings. I have to admit that this would be very confusing for those who have not meddled with these transmissions. I finally did get my Scout 4:1 T-18 input shaft SENT OFF TO MOSER ENG. yesterday evening. FINALLY. I called and spoke to Aaron and explained I would send him the long Scout T18 driven gear (input shaft) and the T-90 driven gear as the "template". Also too I sent hime the T-18 and T-90 input front bearings that have the groove so they can use that for determining length of input from face of trans to end of input shaft snout. Oh, and I sent hime the Beck 8-1/2" Clutch Disc too, so they can check fit for slippage of the Disc hub on the new splines they will cut. Aaron said that Jeff is the Guru in the shop, so if there are any questions, I will be hearing from Jeff. Seth, are you out there ! I remember you mentioning that when you cut your shaft down, did you cut it so the splined portion of the shaft extended 1/4 inch closer to the crankshaft for the clutch disc to ride on ? Ken, another question: Ford T-18 talk here If I am getting this anywhere close in my understanding, if I wish to use a Ford T-18 from a 2wd pickup, the Scout T-18 mainshaft with the 6-spline output should interchange because they are both T-18's ? The Odd-Duck is the Ford T-98 internals that just don't exchange well with T-18 internals. ( other than what you previously mentioned about rev-idler. Seth had mentioned something about the Blocking Rings being difference one to another. And my Scout t-18 does have the Thick 3-rd gear blocking ring. From what I gathered in his (millennium falcon) transmission thread, that he had to purchase a 3rd gear sliding syncro hub and syncro to make something match up. I'm a little confused here. Dang-it, there is no excuse for the 3 P's (p*ss poor planning) on my part. Hahaha, like most of us, I have been accumulating parts, and each time I begin doing research I have so many bookmarks that after 2-hours of trying to digest all these differences, my brain turns to mush, and I shut down and move on to something else. I will place all the T-18 4:1 parts into the Ford T-98 case, and then may have my machinist drill the T-case adapter mounting holes into the rear of the T-98 transmission case for me. What a rubix-cube puzzle. hahaha (remember: when I was tapping the threads into the rear of my T-18 in my '77 I had the idea of tapping the threads with my Variable-speed drill press, and burned up the Circuit Board). :( That loss cost more than the Novak kit I had purchased at that time in 1984. Just this morning, my 91-year old father asked if all this trouble is worth the effort. He has ridden through the Rubicon jeep trail with me and the Dusy-Ershim trail up above Fresno at Courtwright Reservoir, and I had the T-18 in my CJ-7 at that time, so he "knows" it is worth it. snicker. I told him it is just a "Project-Puzzle" to tinker with. Boy, I could use a Cold-Soda soon ! Len |
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ggordon49
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Posted: 07 Aug. 2019 at 8:57pm |
I Knew it!
 The moment I saw your template  |
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- Don't Let The Fatherless Ones Grind You Down -
- I like them stock, survivor's with original paint are my favorites - |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 17 Aug. 2019 at 6:18pm |
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Gordon: Yep, a dead-give-away right ! :)
Here is another "cartoon" that I sketched up by hand showing some Dimensions that I came up with for determining "driven-gear depth" into the bellhousing.  on this cartoon, I am missing the dimension of the T-90 protrusion from face of trans to end of snout. my fault because I forgot to write the length down before shipping to Moser Engineering. (I didn't measure the specifics of the shaft lengths of both the T-90 and T-18 input shafts before sending them out to Moser Engineering), BECAUSE after speaking with Aaron from "Tech", he had me convinced that to have them turn-down the Scout T-18 to the T-90 spec would be a "piece-of-cake". I found out differently, when I received a phone call from a Moser machinist named Goose. Goose was confused of what he was supposed to be doing with my shafts. Really ? A machinist who turns-down and cuts splines for a living, is not familiar with transmission-input-shafts ? I'm from a different generation that the millennials. I was crying on "mbullim's" shoulder this morning, about this experience. Below is how the conversation with Goose and I went: I tried my best to explain what I needed Goose to perform for me and that the outside clip-ring on the front bearings determined the protrusion distance of the input shafts (driven-gears) from the front face of the transmissions. After some lengthly discussion, Goose said "we don't do input shafts" ! I went on and explained to him that the Tech-assistant, Aaron, had me convinced that to turn the shaft down, and to re-spline it would be a "piece-of-cake" and to ship him the shafts, which I did. Goose and I were talking tech-talk with no "picture" of what was specific in a Dimensional-world. After trying to explain the specifics of T-90 shaft lengths and such, Goose finally said "I think I understand what you need." whew, yes, Goose an i may have this sorted out (I hope). Here is what goose told me: We don't do input shafts, BUT since I think I now understand what you need, and I have your parts, here is the price. Turning-down of T-18 shaft = $100.00. Re-spline of turned down shaft = $75.00. I am Tickled-Pink !! thank you Goose !! So, if any of you guys send stuff to Moser, my suggestion is to include a very clear picture (sketch cartoon) showing clearly your needs. I should've. All along through this process, I have been planning on paying out this amount. I told Goose that I am very pleased that he is up to the challenge. (he should be if he is a professional machinist). But he is an employee and not a single proprieter. Single proprieter's normally need incoming business to stay afloat. Once a small business becomes established with repeat clientel, then the can be choosy whith which jobs they accept. Hmm Goose said to expect the shafts to be re-machined by Monday, Aug. 19th, and that it would take at least 5-days postal service time to get it shipped back to Anderson, California. I was in the Postal office yesterday to mail out a heavy package for my wife. While standing in line, I was looking at the Flat-rate-boxes for shipping. The US Postal had a box about 10-inches by 12-inches by 4-inches for $20.00. At Fed-X, I paid $45.00 to ship the shafts to Moser, by weight. The 13-inch Scout T-18 shaft would fit the $20 Postal box diagonally. Alright, that's it in a nutshell for today's update. I wait for Moser. Len Edited by Greaser007 - 17 Aug. 2019 at 6:21pm |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 24 Aug. 2019 at 4:06pm |
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Ok, an update on SLOW-PROGRESS:
I received my modified Scout T-18 input shaft that I sent to Moser Engineering to have turned-down to the early Willys T-90 Spec's.  the shaft above is the cut-down Scout T-18 input, and the Willys L134 T-90 input shaft on the bottom in this photo. My FIRST MISTAKE looking back - I didn't send Moser a Cartoon sketch showing the exact spec's. Upon speaking with Aaron, the techie, he had me convinced the process is a piece-of-cake. After then speaking with the machinist, Goose, who asked me what he was to be doing, I became concerned. I had sent the input shaft for the T-90 to be used as a 'template' and the front bearings and clutch disc for fitment check.  The machinist did not turn the T-18 shaft to the 15/16" diameter far enough back towards the helical gear. Jumpin-Jimmnies !! If any of you guys send something to Moser, be SURE to include a drawing with dimensions for the machinist to follow. just a suggestion. I found out we cannot take anything for Granted. nope. I have a hunch that Goose just figured I was going to be using a std 1._ _" i.d. front bearing retainer for a mustang or camaro. I didn't send him my little pip-squeak T-90 front bearing retainer, and the I.D. on it is slightly greater than the 15/16" O.D. input shaft. It is all to be expected when venturing into unexplored waters. When I get all the bits-and-pieces worked out, this T-18 will be Sweet even with the 4:1 granny, which except for the Rubicon trail, it is perfect for my area of lava rock and dirt. hahaha I am very please so far, and super-excited to have had the opportunity to work with Moser to modify my Scout input to the L134 spline-spec's. Yesterday, I took my modified Scout T-18 input shaft (driven-gear), over to my local machinist who made my 'coffee-cup-coaster' adapter, and asked if he could finish turning the Scout input further back towards the bearing retainer clip, and he said YEP, leave it on my desk. You should see the size of some of his Lathes ! BIG AND LONG, 12-foot bed, from old sawmill machine shops. No, i didn't ask Mark if he uses any diamond cutters for turning-down stuff. (thinking of crankshaft grinders, but with diamond wheel).    The quality of the Moser Machining and spline work is TOP-NOTCH !! So, I am learning little by little as I blunder my way through this conversion project. This T-18 to L134 transmission conversion has been a long time Bucket List item, and time and expense is no concern, it is what it is. :) Yesterday I tediously marked my transmission mounting ear plate with the areas I must "V"-groove the plate to allow for my weld beads to connect with the L134 Willys Bellhousing. It was 103-degrees out, and the front bearing for the T-18 was hot and in my car, and wouldn't go into the transmission case because the case was cooler, so L134 front bearing retainer and bearing got stuffed into the freezer.   the Ford truck trans 'ears' laid over the Willys L134 late '40's bell housing.  L134 bellhousing set down into the Ford truck bell-housing donor 'ears' for fitment mock-up. Now the next step is to grind "V"-groove areas in the 'ears' plate to accept my fillet welds. I won't be doing a continuous bead either. From my experimenting so far, one-inch of fillet each side of the bearing point should suffice. And for finish, I am considering brazing the small fillets on the transmission-face of the L134 bell-housing for easy 'dressing' with a big file or emery-board. I have not been practicing my Cast Iron welding since a month ago, or two, and now do need to get after this. Here are the 3-different welding Electrodes I am going to sort through. ( so far, I like the All-State 8-60 in 3/32" diameter ). 1. All-State 8-60 2. Harris NLW99 3. AWS A5.4:E 309L=16 Seems from memory, the 309L is tough to file I was playing around with the Scout T-18 transmission case yesterday feeling the smoothness of the cluster gear assembly and end-play. Nice and smooth and no noticeable end-play. My plan is to put the Scout T-18 innards into the Ford T-98 trans-case. Yes, I am contemplating having my (now) machinist, Mark, drill and tap the holes in the back of the T-98 case for the Scout "trans-to-t-case" adapter. I have not asked him for this yet, but I am gaining faith in him. He is BUSY with Big-Scale Industrial repairs. He just rebuilt and re-packed the hydraulic ram for a 40-foot semi-dump trailer, because no-one else tackles them locally, and there must be 6-extension cylinders. I would say he has a good niche here in Anderson, California. Ho-Hum, I have 7-chords of firewood to run through my wood splitter so I had better get after this while waiting for my T-18 input-shaft to get further attention. 2-hours-per-Tier to split the wood and 3-Tiers per Chord times 7-chords of wood = 42 hours of Splitting isometrics to keep the back muscles tuned-up for winter snow skiing. Feels Good !! That's it in a nut-shell. Slow and unsteady progress. Truthfully, I am getting the ITCH to pull the body tub off my '46 and begin dollying and rewelding the numerous cracks in the front fenders and the broken spot-welds in the rear fender wells. Yep, the hat-channels under the floor will get replaced too. Len (Greaser007) Edited by Greaser007 - 24 Aug. 2019 at 5:38pm |
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Metcalf
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Posted: 26 Aug. 2019 at 5:07pm |
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Fun project. Why not drill and tap the T18 case to match the T90 bellhousing pattern? Bolt them together from the inside into one unit prior to install onto the engine. |
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42 MB that had a one night stand with a much younger 69 CJ5 and a 50s GM truck.
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 26 Aug. 2019 at 9:24pm |
Metcalf: I have thought of this many times. And that was how Seth connected his. The idea was to follow through with my original idea of the donor ears being attached to the L134 bell, so the trans could be unbolted like a conventional trans. Ha, I keep finding excuses to stay away from the cast iron welding. Just yesterday, I practiced welding on a broken L134 bell housing that was given to me for practice. I did not pre-heat, and my weld cracked just as expected. My buddies are telling me to pre-heat the cast iron in a firepit. https://www.thecj2apage.com/forums/welding-a-broken-bell-housing_topic45354.html I have more welding practice to do. :) |
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Greaser007
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Posted: 02 Sep. 2019 at 12:55am |
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GOOD NEWS !!!
I HAVE WELDED MY MODIFIED L134 BELL HOUSING. And I have felt like the Wright Brothers grafting the new Ford truck T-98 transmission mounting ears cut from the bell housing, and welding them onto the Willy's L134 bell housing. The bore of the Willy's bell was machined out to 4-3/4 inches to accept the "coffee-cup-coaster" aluminum adapter. This adapter idea was given to us by Seth (millenialfalcon). Thank you Seth. One of his buddies had made one of these and it worked successfully. I got lucky and found a local machinist willing to make me one from the pieces I gave hime to measure from. I is only $$$ and time. Maybe a bit of trial, error and hope. The aluminum adapter essentially serves three purposes. 1. the outer I.D. of the "coaster" indexes the bell housing. 2. the inner rear cuts of the "coaster" serve as the T-18 front bearing reatainer. 3. The front cut in the "coaster" indexes the T-90 Frt brg retainer. Note: the Ford donor bell housing ears, have 9/16" coarse threads which is larger than the light-duty pickup bell housing with 1/2" receiving threads. And, because this bell housing was purchased with the T-98 Transmission-case donor I chose not to use the ears from a mid-size Ford bell housing that I have. The mid-sized bell is what was used with the NP 435 transmission. Having modified both T-18's in the past, and NP 435's from 2wd to 4wd applications, GO with the NP 435, as they are much much user-friendly to work on. I am no expert, but I have experienced both over the last 4-decades. On the T-98 trans-to-bell housing bolt pattern, the lower right bolt sits just below the upper-right bolt. I didn't have what appeared to be much to weld to for support of this mounting ear forward-and-aft, so I cut out a Web from mild steel 1/8"x 1" bar stock. It was too thin for my hand and had a terrible time not burning through it. I am glad I installed the web for additional support of that lower right bolt on the passenger side. Now that new donor ear is supported longitudinally. Case-in-hand: The 16-shot-sized slag balls took a good Whack with a 3-lb sledge and chisel to knock them loose. With having filled the V-grooves with new nickel weld bead, I really don't see these new bell housing "ears" pulling loose. It would take a hell of an Impact. IMO. Here is the story: The day I tack welded the "donor-ears" to the L134 bell-hsg, I ran out of the Harris NLW99 nickel rod. The head-gear adjuster on my Huntsman welding helmet was broken and I was fighting the helmet and my hair and the 105-degree heat and my frustrations. Whew, had a booger of a time getting my bead struck without the electrode sticking. So, then on Thursday, Aug 29th (I think), I goes to the local welding shop and take them both L134 bell housings. I show the salesman the broken bell-hsg that I repaired with the Harris rod, and showed him my modified ford-to-L134 bell-hsg that I had tack-welded together. Fortunately for me, he suggested staying with the 3/32" electrode, and the heat somewhere around the 130 amps. My dad's old Lincoln AC 225amp buzz box amp switch jumps from 115 to 135, so I went with the 130. Dumb-luck, and not much experience burning rod with electrodes. I also purchased new head-gear for my Huntsman helmet. Oh, and picked up some of those nice little wire brushes for intricate work. First thing I did when I got home was to install the new head-gear into my Huntsman helmet. OMG !! I THINK I WAS IN 'HEAVEN-ON-EARTH' with the nice new sweat band and working adjuster knob. My first thought - I'M READY TEDDY. So I knucked down and burned bunches of rod (12) and stuffed that rod into the V-grooves and burned me some metal together. Truthfully, I was very nervous just because my only experience welding cast iron was the Broken-bell-hsg, and a few other pieces. But melting is melting, and I was hell-bent on trying to do the job Cold with no pre-heat. It worked and I am HAPPY. Ken, thanks for suggesting the AC current and the higher Amps settings.  this photo shows the V-grooving I cut into the back side of the donor ears.  this photo shows the L134 bell housing clamped to the face of the Ford T-98 transmission case. Getting ready to tack-weld together.  the "mad-scientist" ready to burn some rod and get this thing DONE.  Tacked together and ready for Finish-Welding !  Finish welding and Painted with hammer-finish Krylon paint.  This photo shows the new reinforcing web to support the lower right bolt ear.  It is a good feeling to have this "Concept-dream-idea" behind me. Edited by Greaser007 - 02 Sep. 2019 at 4:02am |
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oldtime
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Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4183 |
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Posted: 03 Sep. 2019 at 3:50pm |
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Nice work !
You now may be the owner of the first, the one and perhaps only..... Ford transmission to Willys 134 bellhousing.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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Greaser007
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Posted: 07 Sep. 2019 at 4:13pm |
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Ken,
This has been a long-drawn-out adventure, but well worth the efforts. I hope anyway. After cleaning, prepping, V-grooving the broken "practice" bell housing and V-grooving and welding about 4-times, that was perfect to get me Tuned-up and sorting-out the Harris NLW99 electrode, my conficence in welding the cast iron grew exponentially. Hahaha Then, upon installing my new head-gear for my Huntsman welding helmet, I felt like a Kid-in-a-Candy-Store" and was Race-Ready to tackle the final welding on my Conversion bellhousing. And, again, Ken, thank you so much for offering your wisdom of these Borg Warner T-98 predecessor to the Warner T-18 / T-19 manual transmissions. I about filled-up the BOOKMARKS on my laptop sourcing information from the Web to learn about the Differences between the earlier T-98 and the later T-18 / T-19 internal changes and non-interchangeable gears and syncro's and STUFF. What I have learned from your perseverance, Ken, is that the T-98 internals pretty much stay with the T-98 internals, and really don't swap much with the later T-18, 19 gear boxes. And that the T-18 mainshaft (output shaft) has a pilot snout that won't interchange with the T-98 input shaft (driven-gear). And here I am wasting all this effort on the T-18 when I should have focused on a NV 4500 that has over-drive. Making choices Thursday, September 5, 2019, I stopped in by my machinist's shop to ask when he thought he might turn-down my modified T-18 to T-90 input shaft (driven-gear), and he said "maybe Friday" ? That tells me it will occur next week sometime, which is OK, because I don't like pressuring these guys. My little task for him is just a nuisance-job. I asked the machinist, Mark Alward, what it would cost to have him pilot, drill and tap the holes in the rear face of my T-98 transmission housing, because he can do this all on his vertical-mill. He said 1-hour shop time. I have done this task before in 1984 on the T-18 that I put in my '77 CJ-7 utilizing the Novak adapter kit using my floor mounted drill press, and taping the holes by hand (after burning out the control board with the tap chucked into the drill press). Everything lined-up good enough to bolt the rear adapter plate because the rear-bearing outside race indexes everything. I must say that I now have maybe burned 4-dozen electrodes in my self-tutored learning curve of melting cast iron together with the Nickel rod. ( I actually spent hours on the Lincoln Electric website digesting the Tutoial videos and the write-ups available, before I began welding on the practice bell ). I WAS IMPRESSED with the "Harris NLW99" nickel electrodes. Nice stuff to use to join two pieces together with little pre-heat. Short welds, and peen when hot, then clean and brush and get ready for the next bead. Like I mentioned earlier, as much persuasion as it took with a 3-lb hammer and chisel to knock off the small 1/16" diameter slag balls, I don't see the transmission "ears" falling loose. I think it would take a Big Impact of sort to knock the ears off of the Willy's bellhousing. I'm likin it ! I have as much confidence as that Redneck that told his buddies "Hey ya'all watch this" !! My next step in this project-puzzle is to swap the transmission cluster gear and shaft from the IH Scout T-18 into the Ford truck T-98 transmission case. Point here: I am moving all the internals from the IH Scout T-18, to the Ford truck T-98 case. The IH Scout T-18 has the correct mainshaft to accept the D-18 / D-20 Transfer Case. And it has the adapter plate that joins the two together. Note: again, the clocking is lower on the Scout plate, so I like that because it will lessen the driveline U-joint angles. Now that I have completed the task of the transmission "ear" modification, Looking Back into the Crystal-Ball, I would do as I originally planned and use donor-ears, individually, from a light-duty Ford pickup bellhousing and T-18 or T-19 transmission that has the 1/2" bolts instead of the truck application that uses the larger 9/16" bolts and holes. The ones connecting transmission-to-bell housing. Kind of infitesmal because this is a one-time application conversion. My one-big concern is not having installed a reinforcing web at all 4 corners for extra strength. My gut tells me that would be an over-kill. With all 4-attaching bolts pulled-up and the indexing of the bearing retainer, I just don't see enough individual force on any one ear to pull them loose from the Willy's bellhousing casting. ( I could be wrong, and will find out ). Maybe this is why automobile manufacture's have Testing-Grounds. Rubicon ! Being a technical Draftsman for many decades, I work on this stuff in my brain each and every day. Pieces are parts, and parts are pieces, so all we have to do is dream-big, and learn the INTERCHANGE, or make our own interchange parts. The sky is the limit. hahaha, lot's of b.s. :) I had better get after splitting and stacking some firewood for the winter that is rapidly approaching. More later _ _ _ Edited by Greaser007 - 07 Sep. 2019 at 4:29pm |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 08 Oct. 2019 at 3:19pm |
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OCTOBER PROJECT UPDATE as of Oct. 7, 2019:
Monday, Oct. 7, 2019, my machinist, Mark Alward, called to tell me to stop-in by his shop. So, i go to "A & A Welding and Machine" in Anderson, California to pick up my modified T-18 input shaft that I left with him early September to turn the shaft down to the 15/16-inch diameter from where Moser terminated the size reduction, all the way to near the bearing retainer-clip groove. A short history, is that when I had sent my T-18 input to Moser Engineering a few months back, I did not send a drawing detailing the extent of turning-down the shaft from 1-1/8" down to the 15/16" T-90 size. So, the machinist only turned down the shaft about 1-inch beyond the new splines he cut. Yesterday, Mark allowed me to watch him cut down the shaft as needed. Mark allowed me to watch him cut it down, and I was so enthralled, I forgot to take a photo or video of the artistry. He had ordered a new cutting tip for radiusing the steps where the shaft transitions from 15/16" to the larger diameter of where the input bearing rides. This was slow-going, and took Mark about 30-minutes. The "Coffee-Cup-Coaster" front bearing retainer / adapter that Mark made for me earlier this year moved the T-90 front bearing retainer ahead 0.27" ahead. Therefore, the Throw-out Bearing Carrier must be cut back 0.25" to allow the Throwout bearing to sit in the proper position. Two weeks ago I ordered a new throw-out bearing Carrier from Pete Debella because the Carrier he sells has the return-spring boss mounted in the same position as shown in the Willys manual. Yep, all other's I found with pictures shows the spring boss mounted near the front, or clutch end. Not good. I told Pete that his was the only Carrier I found with the "boss" mounted near the rear like the manual shows. Pete reminded me "that was a good observation" and agreed with me. Mark, my machinist had cut this for me already when I arrived yesterday. I AM STOKED !!! _ _ _ and One-Happy-Camper. :)  this shows the Carrier mount cut-back 1/4" and the modified T-18 input shaft cut down to the 15/16" diameter back to where the felt washer sits.  this shows the Carrier for the Throw-out Bearing  modified IH Scout T-18 input turned down to the T-90 spec. Yep it's Cool.  My Crown-Jewel modified T-18 input to match up to the Willys L134 engine and clutch assembly. I will be using the 8-1/2" clutch. Now, I am free to assemble my T-18 transmission FINALLY !! Here is a recap of my project costs: IH Scout T-18 with rear adapter and D-20 transfer case _ _ _ $250 Total machining costs for modifications Moser Engineering _ _$270 w shipping Total machining costs for "coffee cup coaster" and such _ _ _$300 Carrier for throw-out and bearing from Pete Debella _ _ _ _ _$55 I will have around $1,000.00 invested in this Pipe-Dream conversion. Looking Back at my 'original' mock-up concept of my L134 Bellhousing to accept the Ford T-98 transmission case shown Below:  Greaser's original Concept shown above. I was going to make the new "ears" out of mild steel bar-stock. Then wound up cutting existing "ears" out of a 1979 Ford Truck bellhousing that I happened to have on-hand.  my original mock-up over-lay sketch (cartoon drawing)  Final L134 bellhousing modified to accept my Ford T-98 transmission case. I'm Thrilled Edited by Greaser007 - 08 Oct. 2019 at 3:40pm |
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Greaser007
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Joined: 16 Jan. 2018 Location: Anderson, Calif Status: Offline Points: 850 |
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Posted: 22 Oct. 2019 at 6:23am |
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I'm back. Couldn't stay away from the forums. hahahaha _ _what addiction ?
Well, i called Ken (oldtime) today, and he was Working on his CJ !! Seems lately that I have been busy working on other people's stuff. I was reading an article that was saying that when us senior's (boomer) retire that we can "volunteer" for something to do. Do these people know that I have an addiction, starving for attention ? yep, Gemma the jeep. Just like back in high school, i'm going to have to begin making "dates" with my Willy's just to give her attention. Anyway, I have bookmarked info pertaining to the Borg Warner T-18 & T-98 until my Bookmarks are swelling. I was telling Ken that I was searching the net this morning on iformation on those Logging Skidder T-98 transmissions. He said they were used on all sorts of equipment besides pickups and jeeps. I mentioned to Ken what led up to the search was that photo on page 1 of the Yellow Skidder T-98 transmission with the reverser-box bolted to the front. In my search, I found a thread in a forum with an attached link to a PDF file of _ _ _ Borg Warner Transmisions being an old print out of several of the transmissions including the T86, T90 and the T98 _ _ with DIMENSIONING. http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=96818.0 there is a link in this forum thread which is a PDF file of Borg Warner transmissions "with" dimensioning. Below is the LINK to the Borg Warner scanned drawings: http://www.numeralkod.com/cross/archivemanuals/warner/automotive%20and%20truck%20transmissions.pdf you will have to copy-and-paste this link into a search engine to see it. I copied it and pasted it to search the web, and it popped-up ! Take a look through these numerous drawings, as they have some very pertinent information and notes. Very Interesting ! Then, I wanted to attach the following link to a great forum thread where the guy shows specs for the different applications of both T98 and T18. There are 3 different ratio's used. This guy's information will lead you to what you will be searching for in ratio's and such of your choice. https://forums.off-road.com/jeepster-american-jeepster-club/112031-t-18-four-speed-225-a.html Be sure to find the data on thread #4 by "donotdelete", guy Kaeser. This is the first time I actually found Dimensions of the pilot bore (hole diameter of the hole in the back of the input shaft) of both T98 and T18. FINALLY !! _ _ way to go Guy and thank you. A few months back, I mic'd the holes on both my T98 and Scout T18, so now I can have a 'compare.' Here is an interesting link to Binderplanet.com : http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/index.php?threads/differences-between-t18-and-t98.9946/page-2 Len Edited by Greaser007 - 22 Oct. 2019 at 6:39am |
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jeepsterjim
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Joined: 13 July 2011 Location: lincoln, ca Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Posted: 22 Oct. 2019 at 6:45am |
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WOW Len
It's was strange to see a link to the old American Jeepster club. Brought back good memories of friends and events. Nothing cooler then having 50 plus Jeepsters/Commandos hitting the trails.
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Jim
CJ-2A - 81299 |
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