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T-98 / T-18 trans to L134 bellhousing

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Greaser007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 6:28pm
Hello everyone, i am bringing my un-completed T-18 Bucket List dream back to Life.

I spent a great deal of thought-time and $$$ putting together this T-18 to L134 package.
I must say, i have really enjoyed the challenge of attempting my own conversion.  This dream so to speak may hopefully be finished in 2021.   And yes, guys, hopefully before i begin pushing up daisies.


    I hope to remove the cylindrical bosses with a diamond wheel.
    This is looking at the passenger side front at top of tan Scout T-18 trans case.


     This photo shows the cylindrical boss to be removed from Scout trans case.
     I may wind up sectioning out and welding in a new piece for Bolt-Clearance.

So the fit of the front bearing retainer "coffee cup coaster" is too tight to easily slide into the hole in the modified bellhousing.  I will consult my machinist to see what he recommends to loosen the tolerances somewhat.

In my absence of 14-months from this project, i have bee doing some Pondering.   yep, what to do.

Yesterday, Wednesday, Jan. 06, 2021, i heated up the L134 mod bell on the fireplace hearth so it would expand and slide over the indexing "coffee cup coaster" adapter.  I then took a few photos to show which bosses must be cut off of the IH Scout T-18 case to make room for new "ears" to be welded on with Nickel rod.   Fun stuff indeedie !!!     
     Yes, i have been having no failures or cracking with Harris 99 nickel electrode in 3/32" diameter.


    Looking at this photo, i plan to weld a mounting 'ear' from a donor bell housing to the top and bottom of the tan Scout trans case.

The "planned" new transmission mounting 'ears' will be cut out of the donor Ford truck bell housing.
Each 'ear' will be custom fit with generous V-grooving for purchase area of the filler bead.
I have finally decided to give this concept a good old re-boot kick-start.

      More later !!

      Len
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Millennium falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 6:36pm
Len, good to hear from you. I’m glad your back at it! Post up some pictures when you get a chance. -seth 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 7:13pm
    Seth,  
     will do  !!    I have been looking at this project each time i enter my shop.

    My home shop needs a re-organization, and not enough shelving, so i have stuff scattered about.
Ha, i was thinking of when the doctor looks into my ears, it may look like a Kaleidoscope.   hahaha

    This will also get me back in touch with the Harris 99 nickel rod.  I want to explore more with it because i was visiting with Ron, a local automotive machinist, and he had just received two rare pieces, both of which were broke and needed someone to weld them up.   I should have just loaded them in and used them for practice instead of him discarding them.
     I could be tempted to buy me a used Kiln oven for cast repairs on odd stuff.   hmmm _ _ _

     I'd better go out into the 'cool' brisk air and create some sparks !!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan. 2021 at 6:33am
Ok, today, Jan.08, 2021:

     I had to get a Covid test at the local community college.
Then helped a buddy move his body working tools of 40-years.
Installed a brake light switch in my '78 Ford van.

    Then,  finally, late afternoon, i broke out the IH Scout T-18 transmission for 'alteration' time.
Hahaha,   the motive today was to make an honest attempt to cut those big round casting bosses off of the upper front sides of the case.   I began in good-faith with my trusty 4-1/2" diamond blade.
    Ok,  i got off to a good start, and then the deeper the cut, the slower the going.   Ugha Bugha


      I got so far, i then changed up to my Saws-All for good tidings.
Well,  the best of the good tidings wound up being about 1-full-hour of tedious slow cutting.


    I got it  !!!
Geesh, one hour of True-Grit wishing that sawsall on through the cut.
I actually did most of the cutting with the bellhousing in place for better holding grip.



     Scarfed off of there and ready for my next chance to tackle the driver's side nodules.

Once i get the nodules scarfed off, then i can focus on shaping the case for accepting new transmission ears.
I have two choices:
1.  find a core transmission for donor mounting ears.
2.  cut donors out of what is left over from my donor Ford bellhousing.    hmmm   scratching _ _ _

Well, guys,  my oldest daughter phoned earlier and she has a chance to go skiing tomorrow, so her and I will be Outa Here minyana.    No work on the T-18 for maybe the weekend.
Life does really get in the way of hobby progress sometimes, but !
The worst day on the ski hill is better than a day in the office _ _ _ or shop.    LoL

I had better go by Pick-n-Pull recycler's soon and see about a donor trans case for "Ears."

       I'm already dreading cutting the other side.  Maybe i shall try a metal cut-off wheel for my 6-1/2" skil saw for quicker cutting.    Any thoughts ?   The skil saw just seems like an accident in the making.

      Until next time  !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan. 2021 at 12:00pm
I cut the side shifter lugs off my T15.
Maybe 5 minutes using a small angle grinder and 4” cut off wheel.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan. 2021 at 2:29pm
Back when i was starting on this 'fantasy' dream, i was doing some reading somewhere, and i came across the following photo of an adapter modification by Ken (Oldtime).  I was fascinated because that told me i wasn't the only dreamer of concept.   I've been reading in 4-Wheeler magazine for six years about the new Jeep Gladiator 'fantasy' dream concept.  We can buy them new today !!

       
Stuff like this amazes me where by numbers and measurements the concept should work.
Today, guys are making adapters to put small diesel engines into older Willys.  Go guys !!

       All of us restoring an old Willys must get creative often with simple items like brackets for mounting one component to another.    Simple brackets can take hours of fabrication and fitting.

      Anyway,  i have been planning on attaching Ken's modified adapter plate to shorten it.  Very cool.
      Speaking of adapter's,  i have an adapter with no name case into it but it has numbers.  This particular adapter will adapt a New Process 205 transfer case to a Ford C6 with 2wd tailshaft.
We all know 2wd transmissions are a dime a dozen.   It came out of a wrecked Quadra-Van 4x4, late '70's vintage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan. 2021 at 3:23pm
Yes that’s from a post I started over on ECJ5 a few years back titled “T15 to Dauntless”. 
The post details how I made my own T15 adapter plate from the Jeep T86AA / T14 adapter.
Last time I looked the pics were missing.
So I moved all my pics to Imgur and now I can no longer access my Imgur account. I no longer have access to any of those pics. 
Currently I’m still having upload issues at “My Willys Pics”.
So I’m nearly outta my ability to do any pic posts.
Maybe half of the “My Willys Pics” I take will upload and that’s it.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 4:09pm
Ken,
    Here is what I do to save photos:

    Download with patch cord from digital camera to my HP Pavillion laptop.  Then copy from laptop to a Flash-drive (thumb drive).  16-gig flash-drives are cheap and reliable for storage.

    Or, now using my Iphone exclusive, i email the photo's in whatever batch size the phone will allow to send to my email.  (5-photos per batch).    Now from my email on my laptop, i save to my hard-drive, and then Save to Flash-drive.    
     Note:    Save all photos from one Flash-drive to another !  _ _ _ for a BACK-UP COPY.

     i don't yet understand the Cloud or One-Drive, but internet storage space costs  $$$$$$$ 

     Ok -  here goes:
Yep,  Jan. 10, 2021, i bolt the L134 bellhousing back on to the Scout T-18 trans case to investigate just how many modifications i must do to allow Bolt and Wrench Clearance for new mounting ears.   Drat !
Way-too-many cuts and recessed wall pieces in 4 locations.
Also, on the driver's side is a PTO cover which would need mod's too.  So, for time and sanity, i am officially SCRAPPING the idea of modifying the Scout case, and will drill and tap the 3 holes necessary in the rear face of the Ford T-98 case for the Scout t-case adapter plate.    


    This photo shows the extent of side wall of Scout trans case which would have to be recessed for bolt and wrench clearance.  There is clearance to weld in a new wall piece of steel bar stock on the inside wall of the case, and weld it in from the outside giving sufficient clearances.
I'm not going to spend 2-weeks cutting, fitting and making ears to be welded in place.
The welding would go quickly, but the fabbing and fitting of recess pieces and trans ears is prohibitive at this point.  (guess i'm not hungry enough).     hahahaha

 
    In this photo of the Ford T-98 case, you can see how deep the recesses are for bolt & wrench clearance.    Wow,  mucho recessed areas.

     I could use a segment of black pipe to create these recessed areas in the IH Scout case, but with having to do this for 4-locations, and fabbing up 4-new Ears for mounting, i decided
"Screw-the-Idea" of modifying the Scout case to bolt to the Ford pattern on the L134 modified bell housing.
   
    So, using a 3-lb short handled mallot i gave the Ford T-98 cluster-gear shaft a good rap on the front.   Both the cluster-gear shaft and reverse-idler are driven out from Front to Rear !!
    I had looked through my misc pipe collection and did find a piece of aluminum tube the correct diameter to run through the Cluster Gear to keep all of the needle bearings in place.
    I drove the cluster shaft out very carefully, and with a 6x6 block of wood backer on the out-going end of the shaft to prevent it from jumping out ahead of my needle-retaining aluminum pipe.  I drove the shaft out with a punch longer than the aluminum pipe neddle retainer.


     Driving the T-98 Cluster-Gear shaft Out slowly from front to rear.


    Take note of the position of the Cluster Thrust Washers !!

    The thrust washers have tabs to index them to both the cluster gear and the trans case.  Look closely and keep everything in order if possible.    Don't loose sleep, because there are only two on the rear.
     Here is something I have learned:    I hate to fess up, but like many of us, i dove into this whole T-18 to L134 dream with mostly Ziltch Planning so i didn't know there were so many Differences !!
First off, i had purchased the Ford T-98 transmission from a supposed '65 F-250 4x4 pickup, along with the divorced transfer case and a bellhousing.   This must have been 2011, and picked them up as Spare-Parts for my early Ford collectibles.
     My oldest owned collectible Ford Pickup was a '66 Factory 4-door cab which i bought in 1992.
I have a '66 F-110 heavy duty long bed single cab 4x4 (first year of coil-spring front suspension on the half-ton Ford 4x pickups.
My other is a '61 Ford F-110 4x4 conversion long bed step-side pickup i bought from the original owner's son back in 1991.    Ha    I tend to keep goodies for decades.    hahahaha

     Ok _ _ _ enough already,  and back to topic.   Well, let's see here:

     One thing i will mention -   once the Reverse-Idler shaft is removed, consider grinding a recess in the front face to hold a punch in place for future removal if the 'need' arises.   Someone had done this to the end of the T-98 reverse idler shaft.   This shaft is a Booger to knock loose, as was the cluster shaft too.

     The following photo will show the holes in the rear face of the Ford T-98 2wd trans case.
Three of the 5 holes for the 2wd tail-shaft housing do index properly with the IH Scout transfer-case adapter plate.   Good News  !!    _ _ _  i can use all good news available for a confidence Boost.

 
           IH Scout T-18 case on left (creme)  -    Ford T-98 truck case on right (gray)

     Note:   I have gone through my shop and wired description tags to my engines, transmissions and transfer cases.   I have done this so if i die unexpectedly, my wife will know what is what.
Believe me,  all of my automotive collection means Nothing to my wife.   If i croak, she'll probably just find someone willing to haul it all off in truckloads.    Hopefully some young buck will put it to use.

      So, the two large holes on the top of the adapter plate are 7/16" NC thread, and are needed to be drilled and threads tapped into the Ford T-98 trans case rear face.
Also same for one 3/8" NC hole on the right side of the mainshaft bearing.
In the above photo, the tan IH Scout case, and on right is the Ford T-98 2wd case.


    Drilling the pilot hole for the two 7/16" bolts.   
    There is a Story i must share about this Montgomery Wards "power-craft" drill press   read on.

    In 1984 i had purchased a Novak T-18 Adapter kit to install into my '77 Jeep AMC CJ-7 Renegade.
The Renegade package came with a 304 V-8 engine,  factory GM tilt-wheel and Saginaw Power Steering, front power disc brakes and an AMC model 20 rear axle assembly with Posi and 4.10 gears.
My wife, girlfriend in 1983, and i went in search of the famous Rubicon Jeep Trail with another couple.
Yep, we found the trail and ran it through from Wentworth Springs to Homewood on Lake Tahoe.
The Jeep was traveling wayyy tooo fast even with 4:10 gearing and 3-spd t-150 trans.
So that was the reason for a T-18 Novak conversion back then.   The cj-7 with T-18 took me in and out of that grueling trail each summer until i quit doing it in 2001.
  Yep, i love that T-18 !!  :)
I restored a '46 2A in winter of 1983 and 84 and ran the '46 through the Rubicon in '84 and '85.  Along came our son, and the '46 got sold.   It too traveled the Rubicon trail way too fast even with 5:38's.

    Really,  the Renegade package had all the Goodies most people add after the fact.
Some Renegades were available with an automatic trans (Chrysler 727 no less).
I am relaying this info for you reader's who aren't savvy with the '77 and '78 Renegade and Eagle packages.

    Back to the 1984 "Story":
    The Novak kit also required drilling and tapping threads in the back of the T-18 2wd case just similar to what i must do to the current T-98 today.
My Montgomery Ward drill press "was" an electronic Variable-Speed hummer.   I had bought it at a yard sale of course, back in the late '70's while a young enthusiast.
Now, when needing to tap the threads, i got this 'hair-brain' idea, to set the drill press on the slowest speed, and if it stalled out, i could help it cut with a helping hand.   Not a good idea !!
What happened was the Drill Press stalled out, and burned up the circuit board.   I promptly took the drill press to the local Industrial Electric shop, and Jerry told me i am out of luck.  The circuit boards were obsolete back then.  The boards were dipped in a thick epoxy, so no way to tell what was what.
Nowadayz, my drill press runs at Mach-Zip like a router.   Full bore high speed.
Hey,  here i am 36 years later drilling holes for another T-18 Jeep Conversion for a L-134 Willys.

     Oh yeah, another screw up too, was purchasing the Scout trans not knowing it was a 4:1 granny.

     If looking at the rear of the Scout and Ford cases,  I will need to plug the holes not needed.
And i have to check the protrusion of the Cluster Shaft and Reverse Idler Shaft later on.
      Hope you enjoy guys.    I am happy to answer any questions.

      Until next time _ _ _ _  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 4:38pm
Len, thanks for sharing your pics.
Clearly shows why the IH units are so hard to convert over to Jeep and Gm patterns.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 5:03pm
I have another "Screw-up" confession i happened to think about, now that my brain has been rewired for thinking "T-18 to Willys L-134 bellhousing / engine.

My Ford T-98 came from a mid-sized (2 to 5 ton) Ford Truck.   It has 9/16"  bolts holding the trans case to the bell housing flange that I welded to the Willys L-134 bell.   Remember, the front bearing retainer properly indexes everything, so the trans can be rotated as needed until things are welded up.
Well, it wasn't until i got the Ford truck bell housing mounting flange all cut out for slipping over the Willys L-134 bell housing, and determining what bolt size i needed to buy, when i realized: Wow, those are larger than the 1/2" bolts used on the light trucks and some passenger cars.    Hmmm ........
Shaking my head,  sometimes the three PPP's come into play.   God, even with my best efforts, i am Human, and screw up and make bad decisions often.
Remember that old Redneck's last words ?   "Hey y'all watch this" !!   hahaha
So, after abandoning this Conversion puzzle Oct. 22, of 2019, i am making another attempt.
I will turn 70 in late September, so i just don't work late in my shop anymore, like i did 30 yrs back.  :)

My recommendation to anyone wishing to do this with my approach, is use the med-duty Ford bell which has the smaller and popular 1/2" bolts mounting the trans to bellhousing.
I am way too far along to change-order now.     snicker

Now,  after traveling the Rubicon Trail 18 summer's, my memory is fading on many of the obstacles.
Most summers, my wife and I and kids after the toddler stage would not travel all the way through the trail from Wentworth Springs (or Loon Lake spillway) through to Homewood, on Lake Tahoe.
Running east from the heli-port on Rubicon River Canyon top edge, on to homewood, i don't care for.
   So what our favorite course, was to crawl in to Buck Island Reservoir, and set up camp for 3-days.
Then we could take a day trek down the Big Sluice to the toll just beyond the bridge in the bottom of the Rubicon River Canyon (Springs, beyond the toll gate).   The climb up and out of the Big Sluice back to Buck Island Res, was always slow and a tedious challenge, possible the most challenging, compared to the Big Old Sjuice Box, between Buck and Spider Lake.    Do climb the Big Old Sluice sometime for a good challenge of gearing and equipment !!    The Big Old Sluice will eliminate all urges to run stock gearing.   Any thoughts from those who have climbed the Big Old Sluice ?

 
   One thing interesting about this photo:   the tap is the same one i used back in 1984 on my first T-18.   It is my father's who currently is 93 yo, and i've used his set for a lifetime.   Looking back, it was just a few years when i tried tapping the holes in my first T-18 in '84, and burned up the variable speed in my drill press which i am still using today.   Montgomery Ward "Power-Kraft"   hahahaha.

I my wind up plugging the two threaded holes where the shaft retainer is bolted.  The Scout clip is just driven in between a groove machined into the cluster shaft and the reverse idler shaft.  more later !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan. 2021 at 5:21pm
Below is a shot of the face of my modified L-134 bell housing with the "Coffee Cup Coaster" adapter that my enterprising machinist, Mark, made for me.   He runs A & A welding and machine in Anderson, Ca..

     
The aluminum adapter "coffee cup coaster" retains the front bearing.
I do need to carefully machine-in an oil return passage yet in the adapter on the bottom. 

Ha !
     yes, it took some doing, but with photo's from Seth's (MillenialFalcon) thread, and sketches, Mark first had trouble digesting exactly how the adapter was configured.
    One morning i told Mark:   "think of the adapter as you would a Coffee Cup Coaster.   The coaster sits on the face of the trans, and is machined to retain the front bearing.  Then you set the coffee cup (the willys T-90 front bearing retainer) into the Coaster." !!

    Mark looked at me, and says  "Ok, i get it" !!

    When i quit working on this project October 22, 2019, Mark had just completed turning some material off of my new throw-out bearing retainer shown earlier in this Build Thread.

OH, yes, another screw-up was winding up with the 4:1 granny instead of the 6.32:1 available.
The 4:1 granny will work just fine in my local area of wheeling away from the challenging Rubicon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan. 2021 at 10:12pm
Here is a link to a T-18 Rebuild article posted on the "PartsMike.com" website:


Below is a link to the T-18 Gasket Set i hope to order today:


Below is the small parts kit from Allstategear.com:


The Countershaft thrust washers were contaminated with metal shavings so I won't use them.
I shopped around on the net and was trying to buy local.  Fat Chance !!
I keep forgetting i am working on a transmission which is 45-years obsolete.   Ugh

I got the Countershaft driven out of the Scout trans case and all needle bearings look new, so i cleaned everything up in mineral spirits, rinsed good with water in a screen (so i wouldn't loose any needle bearings.   Whew,  no kidding, there are 4-rows of 22-needles each row divided by washers and the spacer-tube in the middle.
Removing the Cluster-gear shaft went slow so as not to disrupt anything.   Hopefully !!
Same as removing the shaft from the Ford T-98 case, i scrounged a piece of scrap aluminum tubing from my bone pile, and cut it to 9-3/4" long  (a good round number).   hahaha
For diameter, it just fit inside the hole in the front of the case.   This was to hold the roller bearings and washers in place, as i drove the shaft with a long drift.   I also placed a large 12" block of 6x6 wood for the shaft to push against as i slowly drove it out.
Now, The aluminum tube by calculation is just long enough to catch the thrust washers too.
     So, when the cluster shaft was driven just beyond the last thrust washer, the Cluster dropped from position, and i could pull it out with the pipe in place inside the Cluster, and keeping needles and spacer washers intact.   Then after all this, i dump them all in the cleaning tray.    hahaha

     Really, i don't know how a man would ever wear Out one of these transmissions if properly serviced.   They are so heavy duty.    I mean realistically, i could reassemble with all existing parts, needles and thrust washers, and it would probably run like new.    I say this from experience, which may be discounted by some, but it is the hard cold truth.

     Ha,  oh yes,  there is an old Rumor that i have heard decades ago that we (us guys) cannot mix and match Ring Gears and Pinion Shafts.    I say Hog-Wash  !!!   Because i have done this successfully time in and time again in my 70-years of making something out of pieces and parts.
     Grinning, and am still running a Dana 60 full-floater after 22-years towing heavy loads and it is still going strong.    snicker.    It is all in proper set-up, and we don't need a dial indicator to set up a ring and pinion.    Just a reasonable mesh pattern and common sense.  For real, we can 'feel' 0.004" clearance, which is a good average back-lash for a Dana 44 or Model 20 AMC.
   Try it, you might like it !!

      Oh, hold on, my Grand-daughter is telling me we have to go outside for ICE CREAM !!

      Later, and i will include some new photos soon.

       Len
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan. 2021 at 4:05pm
    I experienced an interesting occurance yesterday while making phone calls to the trans-parts vendors.
Interestingly,  all three could not take my call because of computer problems.   OK !
     Well, Del, from PartsMike was the only one of three to call me back.  What the  %$#* ?
I guess with today's covid epidemic, business as we think of it has changed.

     Sorry folks, i don't do business with AMAZON  !!   which means i don't search Amazon, period.

     When i order parts and pieces, i normally call the business to speak with a sales person.
No luck yesterday.   What I did was to Move Forward.

 I ordered my Cluster-Gear thrust washers and small parts kit from AllStateGear in San Antonio, Texas.
and I ordered the T-18 Gasket set from PartsMike online.
The links are on my previous post.


     Above is the Cluster-gear (Counter-gear) from the IH Scout T-18.  It looks and feels perfect.
This photo was taken before cleaning all the pieces.  No joke, i could not feel any backlash on the Cluster-gear while in the case before disassembly.  These transmissions are TOUGH.


     Drying the Scout Cluster next to the fireplace insert.   Yes, i exclusively heat with Bull Pine (Digger Pine) which proliferates in our area.   I get it free from Craigslist ads.  The catch is:  you must have a Timber Faller's saw to buck 40" trees.    That keeps the 'pickings' wide-open.


     This is the  small parts kit I ordered from ALLSTATE GEAR from San Antonio, Texas.  $23.95

Now, i would not ordinarily change out the needle bearings, but I could not purchase the Cluster thrust washers individually, i will wait and see where these puppies are manufactured before i replace the good original needles from Borg Warner.    Ha !    how many times has this transmission been opened up prior to me taking ownership ?    your guess may be as good as mine.    hahaha
Bearings are tougher than most of us would guess, and i would feel very comfortable running the original needles, and replacing Only the cluster gear Thrust Washers.   This is why we always have a surplus of extra "Left-overs" laying around.

Below is a link to some interesting reading:


I am hoping to include a photo of the T-18 gasket set which includes the t-case adapter main-shaft Seal, and the gaskets for both sides of the t-case adapter plate.

Below is a link to the '77 Jeep Renegade package.  I bought my red '77 cj-7 used in Dec. 1981.
With the Novak T-18 granny-tranny kit, it has taken me into the Rubicon Trail 16-summers with no breakdowns.   All wrenching was done on my home shop floor prior to tackling that parts-breaker trail.


If you need tilt steering parts for the Renegade package, they were made by GM.

Below is a link to Seth's T-18 YouTube videos:


Below is a photo of the T-18 Gasket Set from PartsMike:


     This gasket set should be just the Cat's Meow !!   It was ordered yesterday.
Interesting how it is costing $13.50 for shipping from 200 miles away,  whereas my small parts kit much heavier shipping from Texas, was only $6.50.    Go Figure !!
I guess some Vendor's like to gouge us for a "handling" fee above the "shipping" cost.   Amazing !!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan. 2021 at 4:51pm
Hi all !
    Here we go for another update:   Jan. 21, 2021.
While waiting for parts for my T-18 transmission puzzle, i have began tearing down a GM SM465 4-speed trans.   This transmission came from Alaska in mid '70's  from the Trans-Alaska-Pipeline construction.
(1974 to 1977 - 800 miles of pipeline).
There was a local truck repair who contracted trucks and field repairs, who actually shipped core driveline components back to California for salvage.  My dad worked at the local Chevrolet Dealer as a parts salesman, and bought a SM465 and some NP205 transfer cases.  So, my dad has had these parts stashed away for 45+ years.   Omg.  So, i have rebuilt many different manual transmissions in my 69-years, but never a SM420 or SM465.    Here we go, learning about how another transmission is constructed.


( I am deviating from my T-18 build here for a moment because below is a link to a Willys-Build that i found Most Interesting ).   


The interesting thing that caught my eye about this build-thread is this:
  a modified SM420 to D-18 bull-Gear, where the T-case gear has been welded to a female splined collar to adapt the gear to the SM420 mainshaft Output Stub.    Exactly something i would tackle in a jiffy.


   D-18 modified drive-gear welded to an internal splined collar for a Muncie SM 420.   Nice work !!
One thing about this One-off drive gear is we must not forget that Spline are Standardized.
I like snooping through the Splined Couplers and Collars at Tractor Supply Shops, gathering ideas of how i can make a new component out of parts and pieces for a task-at-hand.   Machinist's are good for figuring out how to make something once again functional out of a broken something.
Bear with me, as i share thoughts which may benefit someone of interest:
Below is a description of how i salvaged a Ford model 670 flail mower from demise.
I know, i am deviating from my T-18 build, but wanted to share this Flail mower sheave solution which i had made up for me by another local machinist.
     My good buddy, Morris, is 6-years retired from 38-years as a parts salesman for John Deere Co..
Morris knew i was needing a 'different' flail mower.   I had been using a converted Corn-Stalk-Chopper as a field mower and a long tongue pull-behind my dads Ferguson TO-20 tractor.   Probably 2004 sometime, Morris calls me and says if i would like a new challenge to bring my trailer down to the Deere dealer and he will load up a '50's vintage 3-point old retired Ford 670 flail mower.   He saide it was basically sound, but missing long-discontinued parts.  The mower was missing the 10" diameter drive sheave at the outboard end of the drive shaft coming out of the pto gear-box on the mower.
My Solution:    I discovered that a standard 1-1/8" 6-spine coupler perfectly fit the splines on the outboard end of the pulley shaft and missing pulley (sheave).    I know i am typing quickly and using slang words so am mixing and matching terms.    sorry
    The i took the O.D. of the coupler, which was approx 2" O.D, x 4" long, on down to the local bearing shop and had the salesman drag out his book for pulleys, sheaves and hubs.
I wound up ordering a similar diameter sheave designed for a tapered hub.   The tapered hub was bore-able to fit over, and clamp to the collar.   I took the pieces to a local machinist, and had him bore the hub to fit over the coupler, and cut the coupler to length for assembling onto the mover driven shaft, and Voila !!     I should post it on one of the vintage tractor interest forums, but that would distract me more than i am now.    hahahaha    Ford model 670 Flail mower 6-ft arbor.
End of mower side story and standard spline applications.   My guess is the center hub from a clutch disc can readily be converted to a coupler ( if needed in a pinch ).    darn-tootin.

Now, if i were doing this for a Client, they may or may not be concerned.   I know, many people are hesitant about modification to components with machining and welding, but we must remember each day we trust our lives to machining and welding.   If you have any doubts, just drive across the golden gate bridge which was built in the '40's, and people trust their lives to it each day in commuting into good old Frisco.

I rented a  (gear puller ) and a (bearing separator) at AutoZone and dove into pulling bearings on the SM465 yesterday.   What a chore.   Yes,  i wound up using oxy-acet to heat up the inside race of the bearing on the output end of the splined mainshaft, and several times as it was a Tough-Pull.
    As i read through service manuals, seems they each have a different Name for components.
Why must manufacturer's each have their own name.   
For instance:     Input Shaft - (driven-gear) or Cluster Gear (Counter-gear).  I have never heard any line mechanic use the term "driven-gear" for a transmission input-shaft.   Why must each mfr be "different." ?

One Difference i have discovered between a Borg Warner T-18 and a Muncie SM-465 is the cluster-gear on the SM-465 rides on case mounted bearings rather than needle bearings on a shaft, like the BW T-18.
I was reading the SM465 has differences in the 1st gear with improvements over the years.   Hmm
I am tearing down the SM465 to discover the differences.   _ _ _ hey, i'm retired, so No-Hurries.
Yesterday, i got that stubborn output bearing coaxed off of the mainshaft (output shaft), and by then i was running out of daylight, so no more progress on the SM-465 tear-down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan. 2021 at 4:40pm
Saturday morning PCT, yes, Pacific time on a brisk 37-degree morning.
No, you won't catch me on the snow ski hill before 12-noon because the slope will be frozen, and guaranteed bruises when you take a fall early morning.  Frozen snow groomed, is like falling on a concrete sidewalk.    Years ago, snowboarders had butt-pads inserted into the rear-end of their Board Pants, to cushion the fall while going over backwards.   I have never been beat-up as bad as my first day on a snowboard.  After that, i boarded 15-seasons, and went back to snow skis around 2005.

Well, all i have to say about disassembling the Muncie SM 465 transmission was a Tough Go.   Ugh.
First off my C-ring Pliers were not up the the task for both the Borg Warner T-18 or the Muncie sm 465.
Took me all afternoon to pull the 3-bearings required on the SM 465 (after sweet-talking those pesky C-rings off all 3-locations.   Yes, i followed the GM Service manual to the "T" for disassembly.
A NOTE here:
     The counter gear (cluster-gear) must have both front and rear bearings removed so the counter gear can "drop" into the bottom of the trans case in order to pull the Input Shaft out through the front.
The  borg warner T-18 is similar except the cluster has a thru-shaft with needle bearings.
Dropping the cluster on the T-18 is MUCH EASIER than on the SM 465.
Here is another note also on the SM 465 Specific as spelled out in the service manual:
The case of the SM 465 has wo recesses cast into it at the front of the Cluster which allows the roller bearing to be pryed-out with suitable prying device like a big-heavy-flatblade screwdriver.  ( I wound up using a cole chisel and 3-lb mallot with many careful taps going from side to side in the 2-access recesses in the case.   It is very slow going.
     Best i can figure, is my SM 465 is around a '74 to '78 model having the PTO port on both sides.
My back hurts  !! 

    
       SM 465 Mainshaft output bearing removal.  Slow and tedious.  If you notice, the radius of the bearing separator lip doesn't match the radius of the bearing race, so the separator is only grabbing the bearing in 4-points.     Not real good, but the best I have available, and it worked.
Yes, i had to keep putting a dab of heat on the race to keep it moving along on the shaft.



      SM 465 rear counter-gear (cluster) bearing removal.


      SM 465 Driven-gear (input shaft) bearing removal with AutoZone rental puller goodies.
An Note:   i used this same puller in 2019 to pull bearings on my T-18 and T-98 trans.



     SM 465 front counter-gear (cluster-gear) roller bearing removal with cole chisel and 3-lb mallot.


     SM 465 transmission case cleaned and painted, de-burr case face.   Note the heavy machining marks !
The machining looks as heavy as what we find on the early Willy's cases (engine blocks and trans & t-cases).


     Ok,  you know how you get the butterflies when facing a difficult task and then it becomes easy to come up with excuses as to why we haven't exited the "starting-blocks" yet ?    Nervousness  !!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb. 2021 at 5:49pm
Hi guys and ladies (if any ladies),
    Below, i am attaching a link to Ken's (Oldtime) thread posting which is a nice reference:
Please note -  it center's around the early Willys optional Borg Warner T-98 trans with part numbers.



The following link is Ken's but the photos were lost:



Today, Thursday, Feb 18,  i am lounging on the sofa dreaming of what could be:

I somehow landed on the "Pirate4x4" website reading a thread post about IH Scout T-18 transmissions.
From that link,  I got off on to reading about the Rubicon Trail and rule changes and regulations of keeping open the County Road.

A  quick note about what I know of running the Rubicon from 1983 through 2001.  _ 20 yrs ago.
Back when, 1985,  a person could drive a jeep with oversize tires through the Little Sluice Box.   My guess is around 1987 people began winching boulders off the sides and down into the Sluice Box requiring a tube-framed-buggy to get through with out body damage.   I could give you all an opinion of this kind gesture, but will refrain because I don't need to go there.   All i can say is people were defecating everywhere outside of campsites on top of the ground without burying with a shovel, and it was GRoss.
Makes me wonder why some people must deficate in their own nest.  Oh wait, the property belongs to the public, so i guess they feel no responsibility to pick up behind themselves.   Hmmmmmm
    With all the poop and trash that some people left behind back then, i am surprised the jeep trail is still open today !!    Seems like even back then, in order to use a fire-ring, i had to clean out a garbage bag of trash from the previous "Users".     I know some 4x groups have "pooper-scooper" days, but when the Jamboree pushes 400 people through in a few days, that equaled  Lots of Poop on the ground.
Really,  how many city-folk carry poop shovels and use them.    concerning _ _ _
   End of Rubicon Trail concerns.   

My machinist is making an adjustment to the clearances of fit between my T-18 special front bearing retainer "coffee cup coaster" so it will easily index into the modified L134 bellhousing.  
Take note:    for you who are new to this, Ford does have several diameter's of front bearing retainers.
In my best interest, I chose the smaller of the two being 4-3/4".   Anyone doing this conversion path will have to make their own choice, but, for me, i'd say go with the smaller hole for least disturbance to the L134 bell housing index hole.

     More to follow soon, _ _ _ _ I hope.   :)


Edited by Greaser007 - 21 Feb. 2021 at 3:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb. 2021 at 5:10pm
    Hi  reader's !    Feb. 21, 2021  Progress Report.

Ok, so, upon observation, I discovered the two bolts were sheared off that attach the crossmember to the IH Scout adapter plate which connects the T-18 trans to the Transfer Case.   Hmmm
My only thought of why those two 7/16" bolts were sheared is because a previous owner hit something solid in the front, causing the weight of the engine and trans assembly to continue moving forward, instantly shearing off the two bolts. 
    Anyways I had my machinist extract the two bolts for me.


    two holes in T-case adapter plate bottom.   
Note:   the bottom surface is machined at an angle to perpendicular to the plate.  not 90 degrees.
You can see where the stretch of the bolts broke out some cast iron around the hole in photo.






    Yesterday was Cluster Gear re-assembly from the IH Scout T-18 trans case into the Ford T-98 case.
Here is the "Deal" -  most articles i've read mention that because of the tight fit of the Cluster Gear with thrust washers installation requires Three-Hands !!    Right !
    So, i meticulously load all of the Four sets of 22-rolller bearings and Separation washers into the Cluster for re-assembly into the case.   Now, i didn't tightly pack the rollers in place with bearing grease.
I did this so the trans fluid could easily work it's way into the needles.   _ _ a good idea _ _ right !
    Well,  yep, you guessed it.   I had to tilt the Cluster up on end to carefully ease it down into the Ford T-98 case.   Aaaaaahhhhh   Noooooo !!    All of the roller bearings and separating washers spilled out onto the cardboard and floor.     I Knew IT would happend.


    In this photo:   on the aluminum tube is the roller bearing center spacer, and the roller spacer washers.    You know,  _ _ i really did know going in, to expect one or more Blunders.
     hahaha   Welcome to the home method of Learning by Feel.   yep, good ol hands-on.   Ouch !

Hey,  my wife yesterday evening thought i had a reaction-rash to my first covid shot.
I reminded her it was the scuffing of my arms against the inside of the trans case walls.


     Reloading the rollers @ 22-rollers each of four groups total.   A tedious task where anything disastrous may and Can happen.    LoL     This can take while _ _ _ _ 


     New thrust washers on left, and the old washer on right.


Note, the old thrust washers look like Hell, but when checking over-all thickness of the washers, they were both basically the same measurement  =   0.020-inch.    
I honestly believe i could have re-assembled everything into the Ford case and the trans gears would function properly, But _ _ _ to feel Good about my efforts, i am replacing ONLY the thrust washers.
I am re-using the original Borg Warner cluster roller bearings because i know they will go many more years.    The new rollers in the small parts kit are probably not U.S. mfr, but probably sufficient.
Am I Supersticious ?    _ _ _ yes.     LoL


   I have been "Forewarned" previously.
I did not watch the clock either, but after dumping all the roller's out,  i walked back to the house to wash my hands, pour a glass of punch, and have a smoke.   From my research, i was expecting the installation of the cluster and thrust washers to take a Loooong Tiiiime.   and it DID, hours.
    Finally, after using Napa wheel bearing grease 'plane-jane' stuff (yellow) i did dab some here and there while stuffing the rollers and separating washers in place.   I was using a piece of aluminum tube from the salvage pile to go through the middle of the Cluster to hold everything in place.  Then, when installing the Cluster Gear Shaft, the Shaft pushes the aluminum tube out ahead of it.
Note:    the shaft goes in from Rear to Front.
I fought and fought trying to hold the Cluster with one hand,  and rotate, to the stuff the Shaft in from the rear while rotating it also.    It Didn't happen.
My aluminum pipe is cut long enough to catch and hold the Twe Rear Thrust Washers in place while gently and lovingly lowering the loaded Cluster into position.  Remember:   there is a big large diameter thrust washer at the front of the Cluster.  This washer is 'indexed' to the case with a bent tab.
Yep,  my 'small parts kit' must be from China, because the bent tab looked insufficient.  So, in to the vise it goes, so i can persuade more bend with the assistance of a small pair of Vise-Grips (my fav buddy in the shop).   Everyone should own a pair of Vise Grips with the chain (not used here).
     Note:    I held that big front thrust washer in place with grease to stick it in place AND with the "bent tab" indexed properly in the recess of the case.   Pay attention to this with care !
I held the front thrust washer from falling down by using the Reverse Idler gear Shaft as an index.

     Well,  after many many concerted, and failed attempts, i needed the 3rd Hand, which would be the boss's touch,  my wife and best buddy.   I recruit her assistance, so i can Balance the Cluster with both hands, so it "floats" in position.
     Oh,  Too  -   _ _ _ there was about Zero chamfer on the front edge of the shaft ok !   And, i figured out that the roller separating washers are just small enough O.D., that they would drop down enough that the leading edge of the shaft was hanging up on the washer.
     I got out my 4-1/2" grinder with diamond wheel and put a good heavy 1/16" chamfer.

     My next assembly attempt with the wife manning (womanning) the shaft, and me balancing the Cluster, i carefully made sure the most rear-ward of the two rear Thrust washers was lined up, and Presto !!   _ _ _ with a few subtle jostles, the Shaft slid right in like it should have the first try.


     In this photo the Cluster shaft has been inserted into the Cluster Gear.   You can see the Reverse Idler shaft sticking out front, which is holding the front thrust washer from falling down.





     This photo shows the Tab sticking Up on the rearward Thrust washer.  On the bottom of the washer is the open groove which sits over a casting on the trans case preventing it from spinning.


      This is looking at the Forward Thrust washer with Indexing tab.
I put my new wasjer in the vise to give it more bend stick ou.


     Finally,  wow, what a trying afternoon of Jostling the Cluster, Thrust washers and Shaft.
     Yep, i was shafted until i Chamfered the cluster shaft leading edge.  I think i could have installed the shaft with out the wife's assistance had i chamfered the shaft before my first assembly attempt.

     Hahahaha  _ _ _ kinda funny, who we get nervous and get the butterflies just before re-assembly of something we don't work on everyday, so we are essentially Learning-as-we-Go.    right  !!

     Like that old Redneck said to his buddies  "Hey ya'll watch this" !!  _ _ before his Fail.   hahaha

     What a relief to have the IH Scout Cluster gear (Counter gear) installed into the Ford T-98 case.

     While carefully driving the Cluster shaft through the Case and Cluster slowly with a plastic mallot, the shaft pushes my aluminum tube out ahead of it.   Believe me, with the thrust washers in place with the cluster in the case, the fit is so snug, the roller separating washers on each end have no room to drop out.   BUT, do keep a close eye on both end thrust washers to make Certain they are Indexed properly.   When everything is lined up, the cluster will 'float' in position.   This is a good thing.
     
     Next i will show Differences i encountered while COMPARING gasket faces of the Ford T-98 case to the IH Scout T-case Adapter Plate.    Not Good !!
    I will attempt to show the discovered Miss-Fit between the two.   Yep,  big time leak issue.
   
     See my next thread:


Edited by Greaser007 - 21 Feb. 2021 at 9:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb. 2021 at 9:27pm
    Feb. 21, 2021  Pacific Time @ a little past 1:00pm:

     As i laid out the gaskets which insert between the Transfer Case Adapter plate to transmission, and the gasket inserting between the Adapter plate to Transfer Case.
     Well,  if we look at the following photos, there is a gap between the transmisison casting and the IH Scout Transfer case Adapter plate.    Not Good.  !!!!
This means i will have to build up some weld beads to fill in the Gap-Area on either the T-98 trans case or the IH Scout Adapter plate.   Or, i could use JBWeld as a filler, and machine flat at the gasket surface.


    This photo shows the gasket which follows the contour of the T-98 Trans case, but does Not follow the outline of the IH Scout transfer case adapter Plate.    Geat Scott  !!!    another hurdle.



    This shows the gap between the t-case adapter plate and the gasket.  The gasket follows the outline of the Ford T-98 case.   As a note to, directly behind this gasket in the "gap" area, is a threaded hole which accepts one of the Transfer Case mounting bolts.   I will have to fill carefully with no slop over into the threaded area.



    This shows the area to potentially fill for a complete gasket mating surface on rear of T-98 case.
This decision will be made after doing some filling practice using Harris 99 nickel electrode.
    To be continued:

    





Edited by Greaser007 - 21 Feb. 2021 at 9:31pm
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