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TAILGATE REPAIR SECTION

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jpet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec. 2009 at 10:02pm
If it were me, I'd have your sheet metal guy just put the "S" curve bend(s) in and leave out the 90 degree bend. The last die shown (or something like it) will form the 90 and it will be in the correct position. Otherwise your metal worker will have to calculate the distance between bends and it is likely to be a little off from part to part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec. 2009 at 12:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CW48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec. 2009 at 3:21am
In a word, you guys work is magnificent!!!!!! Can't wait to buy 5 sets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec. 2009 at 12:12pm
Great work JPET!Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec. 2009 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by woody woody wrote:

Great work JPET!Clap
I really haven't done anything on this project but daydream.  mike in oregon is the trail blazer here.  Can't wait to see the outcome. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec. 2009 at 9:20pm
Update. I made these tools and went to work yesterday and tried to bend a couple of test pieces that I got from the sheet metal shop. I believe the 90 degree bend they put in it is not correct and I may try some with out them as Jeff mention earlier. I was not happy with any of these test bends and had to back away for a day. I think I may try some of the angle iron tooling as I had a hard time keeping the sheet metal were it needed to be. iIwould like to move this topic to member created parts but do not know how to do this. Also I asked earlier but never got a reply so I will ask again, do you guys want complete pieces with new hinge pins or just the formed piece that is 37" long. I could also use the outside diameter of the piece so I could compare it to mine to make sure these are correct. Right know I am using 9/16 O.D. round stock to form the piece and may have to go to something bigger as it seem like my bend is to tight. Thanks,  Mike                             
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec. 2009 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by mike in oregon mike in oregon wrote:

.....I was not happy with any of these test bends and had to back away for a day.......
Hang in there buddy and remember what Einstein said, "If we knew what we were doing, they wouldn't call it RESEARCH".
 
Let me know if you need anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CW48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan. 2010 at 4:41pm
I would like to keep in place my old tailgate pins. This might help out when aligning and welding up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan. 2010 at 10:43pm
Got ya CW46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 3:03am

Heres another update. I reworked all my trial tooling and did some more bending today and had much better results. I still have some tweaking to do and have to get the sheet metal shop to leave out the 90 degree bend and the material he used is only .055" and I think our tail gates are .065" as I checked mine in several places and it is anywhere from .060 to .065. some help here would be great, maybe a few of you guys could measure yours in a few places so we get her right. also I need more people to chime in to how long they want these, with or with out hinge pins, spot welded together or not??                                                                                                                      



Edited by mike in oregon - 05 Jan. 2010 at 3:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 3:12am
Mike,
 
Mine is .06 (16 gauge).  I believe the tailgate to be 16 gauge.
You could go to 15 gauge (.067) but I think that you will find that because it is not a very common size it will be very hard to find and probably more expensive.  16 gauge is very common and easy to obtain.
 
Just a thought.
 
And GREAT work.Clap


Edited by jpet - 05 Jan. 2010 at 3:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 3:34am

Well thats what I thought and ordered but it its thinner than the original and when I measured it it was .055". must be that d#mm metric system again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 6:23am
Originally posted by mike in oregon mike in oregon wrote:

Well thats what I thought and ordered but it its thinner than the original and when I measured it it was .055". must be that d#mm metric system again.
What you are seeing there is the steel companies skimping on material.  That's why in the 1940s 16 ga was .065 but now the steel companies are trying to save money by making the steel as thin as possible to the allowable tolerance.  If your steel is .055 it is below tolerance.  I'd send it back and get my money back.  This  needs to stop somewhere.
 
Edit: When I ordered material for making top bows, I always had someone go out to the warehouse and mic the material to make sure that it was within tolerance.  Sure as shootin' if you just order it sight unseen, they will send you something that is out of spec.


Edited by jpet - 05 Jan. 2010 at 7:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 1:51pm
Jeff do you ever sleep? Your last post last night was 11:56 pm I believe my time which would be 1:56 am your time I believe give or take a hour.  I may have to go to 14 guage to get 1940s 16 gauge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 2:05pm
When I order 14 ga. I usually get material that is about .078 thick. When I order 16ga it's usually .059 thick.

Where are you buying material from? If the material is out of spec, I'd send it back and order from someone else. You have the right. There is a mill standard that they have to maintain. When you order material just tell them that the material must be within spec .059 minimum. If they can't guarantee that I wouldn't do business with them anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan. 2010 at 2:08pm
I just have the small test pieces from the sheet metal shop and I will not be using it if they don't have the correct thickness. well I got to go to work know see ya.  Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike in oregon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2010 at 12:02am
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

When I order 14 ga. I usually get material that is about .078 thick. When I order 16ga it's usually .059 thick.

Where are you buying material from? If the material is out of spec, I'd send it back and order from someone else. You have the right. There is a mill standard that they have to maintain. When you order material just tell them that the material must be within spec .059 minimum. If they can't guarantee that I wouldn't do business with them anyway.
                                                  Jeff I went to the sheet metal shop today and they said that just the manufactures pushing it to the limits. We remeassured the metal at .056. I call a metal supply place here in town which is were we ( my work) buy steel from and the salesman said the spec was  some were around .053 to .065 or something like that. Is there somewhere I could go to find the true specs. That way I have something to fight them with. I don't know If .004  -.005 is going to make a different but i would like to get as close as possible.    Thanks, Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2010 at 1:27am
Originally posted by mike in oregon mike in oregon wrote:

Jeff I went to the sheet metal shop today and they said that just the manufactures pushing it to the limits.
yes
Quote ....We remeassured the metal at .056. I call a metal supply place here in town which is were we ( my work) buy steel from and the salesman said the spec was  some were around .053 to .065 or something like that.....
Have him show you the spec.
Quote ....Is there somewhere I could go to find the true specs. That way I have something to fight them with. ......
 
I don't have my Machinist Handbook with me right now.  Perhaps a member who is following the post does.
 
16 gauge is supposed to be .0598 as shown in all these examples:
 

http://www.sheetmetalguy.com/sheet_metal_gauge_chart.htm

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/sheetmetal.html

http://www.thelenchannel.com/1sheet.php

http://www.answers.com/topic/sheet-metal

http://cableorganizer.com/articles/gauge-metal-sheet.html

http://academic.evergreen.edu/projects/biophysics/technotes/fabric/sheet_metal.htm

There is an ASTM standard for sheet metal thickness.  (American Society for Testing of Materials)Have your vendor read ASTM A568.  I believe the tolerance is .0598-.065 or something like that.  It depends of the width of the sheet.  The point is the ASTM standard only allows the material to be thicker not thinner.  .0598 is the MINIMUM size as shown in the above hyperlinks.
 
Now .... does this company follow some other standard other than the ASTM? Perhaps they made up their own.  I'd want him to show me the standard on paper.  Perhaps they don't follow any standard.  Who know.  I don't know the legals of it all.  Thing about it is 17ga is .0538 minimum and he's saying that his standard is .053 - .065?!  Why stop there?  Maybe they should just drop the standard to .0478 so that they can get rid of that pile of 18 ga that's been laying around for a couple years.LOL
 
Anyway, I said all that to say this.  When I order steel I won't say "16 gauge"  I say. ".06" or ".0598".  That way there is NO MISUNDERSTANDING.  If they can't tell me how thick it is, I tell them to go out in the warehouse and measure it.  If they won't, I'll go there myself.  that's what I did when I was making top bows.  In that case, The arch bow had to fit into the upright bow so the inside dia of the upright had to be a certain size .002 off would not cut it.  So I personally measured the material.  IMO, A reputable steel reseller would have an undestanding of manufacturing and understand why this is important.  If they don't, you are better off going soewhere else anyway.
 
If you want, I can buy the steel for you.
 
Edit:  You better read the ASTM standard before you quote me though.  I'm going by memory.Embarrassed


Edited by jpet - 07 Jan. 2010 at 1:29am
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