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The Best Bad Idea

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BradR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BradR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep. 2022 at 9:55am
Welcome to the forums and congrats!  I'm sure curious about how this will turn out with the lemons race.  You are not going to have the speed, braking power, HP, or MPG of any other car out there.  I'm excited to see how you tackle these challenges. 

I just got mine about 2 months ago and inherited a rats nest of old, really old, and really really old wiring.  Some of it was connected to things.  I would highly suggest ripping out everything and re-wiring.  I'm now confident I can troubleshoot electrical issues.


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juror View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juror Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep. 2022 at 9:31pm
Quick update on the project:

Bree was out of town for the weekend and left me with specific instructions not to do anything interesting that she'd want to be part of. So I took advantage of the weekend to wade into the electrical system by doing the scut work of taking the geriatric electrical tape off the wiring, tracing everything, and labeling all of the wires. Figuring out what we're starting with, with the intent of being able to get back to it if needed.

I'll borrow a conversation between some former coworkers to summarize the wiring situation:

"Is any of it right?"
"Some of it's not wrong."

With everything unwrapped, I started labelling wires with where they went. I found about a dozen wires that were disconnected on one or both ends. In absolute terms, that isn't very many. Relative to the total number of wires on the vehicle, however...

Where we're at at the moment is the complete set of things that are wired up (correctly or otherwise) is:

  1. The starter circuit, via a key switch and pushbutton switch. Wired correctly.
  2. The ignition circuit. The Mopar ballast resistor was bypassed, but I've wired it back in and taken the vehicle for a test drive.
  3. The alternator and voltage regulator (both '60s Mopar) is a hot mess. I've not had to deal with an external voltage regulator before, but none of the wires hooked up to it were hooked up on the other end, and the alternator has two out of three wires hooked up. While I felt like wiring the ballast resistor back in was trivial enough to do without Bree around, I figured this probably needs two heads.
  4. The ammeter seems to be wired at least halfway correctly in the charging circuit. It does correctly indicate that the battery is discharging when the ignition is switched on.
Once I had stuff labelled and had the unconnected wires stripped out, I started replacing the scabby looking wires one for one and untangling things under the dash. On the plus side, the fact that the speedometer is missing made it really easy to see the back of the ammeter through the great gaping hole where the speedometer ought to be.

I haven't started with the scabby wiring in the charging circuit. I'll probably do a full rip and replace on that as soon as I figure out what it should look like.

Oh yeah. Through all of this, the chickens insisted on "helping":


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote oldscot3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep. 2022 at 10:39pm
You've probably already figured out that the reason the oil filter is on the wrong side is because of the way the alternator is mounted. It should be lower, then the filter will mount up correctly. Bracket kits are cheap and should fix the misalignment. Also, the pulley on the alternator is wrong, you can get that also and then you can run the wider belt to match your water pump pulley.

Edited by oldscot3 - 12 Sep. 2022 at 10:41pm
James 4:6 God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
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SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep. 2022 at 9:28am
Originally posted by dasvis dasvis wrote:

https://walcks4wd.com/Complete-Wiring-Harness-Willys-CJ2A-Horn-on-Firewall-w-Turn-Signals-Made-in-USA-Free-Shipping_p_509.html

 Personally, I would not rely on 75 year old cloth covered wiring. I am positive if you crawl around under the dash you will find wires with the insulation falling off. Sure, you can roll your own, but Walck's kit is really nice & fits like a glove.


X2! Got to agree with dasvis. The best idea...
46 CJ-2A #64462 "Ol' Red" (bought April 1969)(second owner)(12 V, 11" brakes, M-38 frame, MD Juan tub)

U.S. Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer(ret.)
U.S. Army Vietnam veteran and damned proud of it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Agas46cj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep. 2022 at 10:11am
I’m sure the walcks kit is super nice, easy, and correct. But if cloth wires don’t matter to you, and you can read the free wiring diagrams on this page, and have some experience wiring control circuits, it would be a fraction of the cost to make your own. Im using wiring scraps from the junk yard in a rainbow of colors to make mine. I think I have less than $50 in total investment and enough wire and connectors to make 3 harnesses. The only things I have to buy special are the headlight connectors. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep. 2022 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Agas46cj Agas46cj wrote:

I’m sure the walcks kit is super nice, easy, and correct. But if cloth wires don’t matter to you, and you can read the free wiring diagrams on this page, and have some experience wiring control circuits, it would be a fraction of the cost to make your own. Im using wiring scraps from the junk yard in a rainbow of colors to make mine. I think I have less than $50 in total investment and enough wire and connectors to make 3 harnesses. The only things I have to buy special are the headlight connectors. 

I used a lot of used wire and Packard 56 series connectors when I rewired my 3B back 1974-1975.  Yes, most of it is better than the stock wire with varying layers peeling off, but the plastic insulation also gets brittle with age.  If one is going to the trouble to completely rewire something, I think it's worth the money to use all new, quality components.  You can do that and still be only half the cost of a made up harness.  In my case, a made up harness wouldn't do me any good anyway because none of the original electrical parts still exist.

All that used wire was removed decades back from the B and it is presently wired with all made in USA wire and, except for a few items-primarily Metri Pack connectors on the EFI, all Weather Pack connectors.
1955 3B: 441sbc,AGE 4 speed transmission, Teralow D18w/Warn OD, 4.11:1 D44's/ARB's, glass tub & fenders, aluminum hood/grill, 8274, York OBA, Premier Power Welder; 67 CJ5: 225,T86AA, D18, 4.88's, OD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom in RI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep. 2022 at 9:08pm
Nice project and excellent rally goal.  You will eventually look to make or find a fan shroud. All other good comments and ideas have been said. 
Bonus - no rust. 
The front frame horns look nice and clean.  If thats a sign of the rest of the frame you are way ahead.  Especially for New England. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maineiac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct. 2022 at 10:48pm
Hey there! Like the others said, welcome to the forum! I'm up in Maine working on my own jalopy, and while I've heard of the Lemons Rally, I hadn't really thought of it recently, or of driving it in my CJ...  A year should be enough time to get mine rolling, perhaps a mini group meetup? :P

Though that being said, I've only just managed to extricate the pistons from my engine, they were *quite* seized in place. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct. 2022 at 8:50am
I just noticed the colors on your jeep. It looks a lot like my ‘47 CJ2A in that it has green shot over a pale yellow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ATBree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov. 2022 at 9:43pm
We have been trying to change the oil on the jeep for about two months now.  Eric says this is project recursion- when you go to do one thing, but realize that there is something else you have to do first, and that thing takes even more time than you anticipated.  I'm assuming that this is how it's going to go with our jeep for a while (forever?).

Here are the steps we followed to change the oil over the course of many weeks:

Step 1: Buy oil and oil filter, full of optimism and hope for the project.
Step 2: Realize that the oil fill tube is loose.  Look at the manual and the parts rig and conclude that the issue is that the oil fill tube in the working jeep is missing a bracket attached to the head bolts that secure it in place.  (Why oh why would there be a friction fitting on such a vital piece of an automobile?)
Step 2a: Try to feel successful by doing something else.  Attempt to remove lug nuts from the rear wheels of the parts rig so that they can be reinstalled on the jeep.  Fail, because I'm not strong enough/there is rust involved/karma from thinking this would be easy.  (Yes, I know that the drivers side threads backwards and is different from the passengers side.  That wasn't the issue.)
Step 2b: Install a choke cable, so that we no longer have to operate the choke manually while standing next to the jeep with the hood open.  A SUCCESS! FINALLY!
Step 3: Wait several weeks to buy a torque wrench.
Step 4: Attempt to loosen the bracket from the head bolts on the parts rig using a wrench.  Fail.  Use heat. Fail.  Use PB Blaster.  Fail.  Have Eric try.  Fail. 
Step 4a: Decide to replace the radiator hoses instead.  Spend time marveling about how the parts we purchased don't match the hoses in the jeep, but don't think critically about what that actually  means.  Replace the top hose with the new hose (modified using a pocket knife).  Don't replace the bottom hose, as the part we bought is far too short.  Eventually realize that the radiator is from a CJ-3a, instead of a CJ-2a.  (This is a good reminder to verify each part before proceeding.)
Step 4b: Get frustrated and angry.
Step 5: Buy an impact wrench.
Step 6: Using the impact wrench, remove the oil fill tube bracket from the parts rig, and reinstall it on the jeep. Use black adhesive sealant on the friction fitting between the oil fill tube and the oil pan.  Tighten the head bolt with the torque wrench.  CHANGE THE OIL AND THE OIL FILTER!  Attempt to start the jeep to circulate the oil and... fail.  No idea why it won't start, but decided to call it quits for the day.  We will try again tomorrow.

Despite being frustrated at the pace of progress, I am very happy about how much time I've spent poking around under the jeep.  Eric pulled the skid plate off, and we were able to get a better look at the area where the speedometer cable will eventually attach, once I peel off about 70 layers of gunk and dirt and oil.  (Hopefully all that crap isn't holding the jeep together.)  We also noticed that the bellhousing is missing some bolts- thank you to the people who already wrote in about the bellhousing bolt size and how it's easy to put the wrong size bolts in.

The next project coming my way is to change the gear oil and the differential oil.  Youtube has told me that I should be sure to remove the fill ports before removing the drain bolts, to make sure that I'm able to fill the reservoir up before I drain it.  Are there any other suggestions out there?  I'd love for this next step to not take another two months.  :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juror Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov. 2022 at 10:18pm
I've been chipping away at things in the background while Bree has been working at the oil filter and the associated problems we've found along the way.

Originally posted by oldscot3 oldscot3 wrote:

You've probably already figured out that the reason the oil filter is on the wrong side is because of the way the alternator is mounted. It should be lower, then the filter will mount up correctly. Bracket kits are cheap and should fix the misalignment. Also, the pulley on the alternator is wrong, you can get that also and then you can run the wider belt to match your water pump pulley.

I uh, haven't put the least bit of thought into why the oil filter is in the wrong place. I'm a one-problem-at-a-time kind of guy. When we get to that problem, I will be super grateful that you pointed all of this out :-)

Originally posted by Agas46cj Agas46cj wrote:

I’m sure the walcks kit is super nice, easy, and correct. But if cloth wires don’t matter to you, and you can read the free wiring diagrams on this page, and have some experience wiring control circuits, it would be a fraction of the cost to make your own. Im using wiring scraps from the junk yard in a rainbow of colors to make mine. I think I have less than $50 in total investment and enough wire and connectors to make 3 harnesses. The only things I have to buy special are the headlight connectors. 

This is the point at which I have to apologize to the purists. We're also not going for an original look. We could get there with the application of enough dollars, but it's a fiberglass tub and there are random bits of wood blocking to space the replacement body components as needed. Not my work, but I'm going to live with it. So we're not going with the Walck's kit, as nice as it is (and it looks awfully nice, to their credit. The kind of thing I'd aspire to if I had their level of skill and experience). I'm putting it together one circuit at a time, cleaning it up as I go, and I'm probably going to replace the ammeter with a voltmeter at some point down the line.

I've got the ignition more-or-less sorted, the starter circuit cleaned up, and the charging circuit is in vastly better shape than it was. I need to rip and replace the wires running to and from the ammeter and rigorously test the alternator, but I think I at least have my head wrapped around it. Once it's working properly, I'll entertain throwing all that work away and swapping the ammeter out as described above. Like I said, I'm a one-problem-at-a-time kind of guy.

Originally posted by Maineiac Maineiac wrote:

Hey there! Like the others said, welcome to the forum! I'm up in Maine working on my own jalopy, and while I've heard of the Lemons Rally, I hadn't really thought of it recently, or of driving it in my CJ...  A year should be enough time to get mine rolling, perhaps a mini group meetup? :P

Though that being said, I've only just managed to extricate the pistons from my engine, they were *quite* seized in place. 

Good grief, it sounds like you're in deep. Ours at least runs, if not well :-) If you want to do the rallly, we'll race you to the starting line. We've got a head start, but if you're pulling pistons, I like the odds of you catching and passing us. Pop on over to VT if you need a CJ-2 radiator hose, or some gear oil. We have ... plenty.

About the gear oil.

Googling indicates that the transmission has brass in it, and that GL-5 is totally inappropriate and that the opinions on GL-4 are split. As it happens, I also recently acquired a Porter Cable belt sander that has yellow metal in the gear train, and so I needed some (like, 2 tsp/10mL) GL-1 gear oil for it as well.

None of the area auto parts stores could conjure up less than 5 gallons of GL-1, so I threw a Hail Mary and went to Tractor Supply, where I found that they sell 90W GL-1 for old Ford tractors. We now have 2 gallons of that, which is a supply for merely several lifetimes instead of many. If you need some, and you're in New England, we're in VT, and will happily trade a Jeep-sized quantity for a six-pack.

Meanwhile, I've been wrenching on my daily driver while Bree has been working on the Jeep. If you'd like to know why I try to stick to the electrical side of things, here's a link. I'll take my knocks for breaking the bolt and getting the other stuck; goodness knows I'll get some well-deserved ribbing when I show up with it at the garage.

EDITED TO ADD:

Oh yeah. Chicken update.

Ambrose (seated on the bumper) got eaten by a fox. Mildred (on the ground) is definitely a cock, not a hen. And Bulger (on the radiator support) isn't going to be very white much longer if she keeps insisting on helping.


Edited by juror - 07 Nov. 2022 at 10:28pm
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