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The Go Devil's grandfather

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Bill2A View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Jan. 2021 at 9:43pm
I got to wondering how far back the first version of the Willys 4 banger went.
I thought the line began with the 1925 Willys Whippet.
It turns out that was a latter version of the 1919 Overland's power plant.
They were only 35 HP then.
Not bad compared to Henry's 20HP Model T.
1946 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 1:58pm
Not sure I am answering the question, but the engine used in the Willys "Americar" from the 30s is basically the same as the L134 used in the Jeeps. I think the earlier version had "Babbitt" rod bearings instead of bearing inserts, and probably a few other minor differences, but it is basically the same engine.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Oldpappy Oldpappy wrote:

Not sure I am answering the question, but the engine used in the Willys "Americar" from the 30s is basically the same as the L134 used in the Jeeps. I think the earlier version had "Babbitt" rod bearings instead of bearing inserts, and probably a few other minor differences, but it is basically the same engine.

 I'm sure thankful that the 134L's  used in the Jeeps have bearing inserts. Babbitt bearing engines are a pain in the butt & damn expensive to repair.....
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelyard Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 7:32pm
1947 CJ2A, Body & Frame: 106327, Engine: J109205, Tub and Tailgate: 97077. Originally Luzon Red

1965 Johnson Furnace Company M416 #6-1577
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan. 2021 at 8:36pm
I was just pointing out that the basics of our little engine that could go back about a century.
What information I did find was from asking Google and following links, rephrasing the search and trying again.
There isn't a whole lot out there.
One interesting thing I did find was that most of the early Willys cars used some variation or another of the Knight sleeve valve engines.
The L head was an alternative afterthought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2021 at 7:47am
"I'm sure thankful that the 134L's  used in the Jeeps have bearing inserts. Babbitt bearing engines are a pain in the butt & damn expensive to repair....."

The only Babbitt bearing engines I worked on were in old Chevrolets. A "Shim Job" was considered routine maintenance. A well cared for engine might go 60,000 miles before needing it. The bearings were good for more than one shim job, provided the car had regular oil changes, and most cars of that era were scrapped before they hit 100,000 miles. 

Only became an expensive pain after enough wear occured to develop an "egg shape" and the engine would no longer hold good oil pressure.  

I still have the little ball peen hammer my dad gave me when he showed me how to check clearance on the bearings.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2021 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Bill2A Bill2A wrote:

...
The L head was an alternative afterthought.

You better watch your micro-aggressions LOL
1946 CJ2A #69750 - "Plowshare"
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Analog spoken here....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2021 at 8:44am
I expect that if Barney Roos had not updated the L134, there would be very few early Jeeps left.
They would have been disposable.
I have never had to deal with babbitt and I don't want to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SE Kansas 46 CJ-2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan. 2021 at 10:30am
The last machinist that I knew of close to home that actually cast babbitt rods died almost 45 years ago. A lost art. He had all the equipment to do it and stayed busy with it until the day he died at age 86. "Puny" Salisbury was his name and he had more machinist knowledge than almost anyone. I used to go to his shop and just watch him work and ask questions. Quite a guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greaser007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan. 2021 at 10:25am
The following copied from the 4-wheeler article:
and ran at a whopping 4,400 rpm extended. !!   not bad.
"Roos’ reliability benchmark was 100 hours at full power. One of his first tasks was to strap the 48hp engine to a dyno. It lasted 22 hours at 3,400 rpm—’nuff said. Roos and his staff set to modernizing the engine, incorporating insert bearings, a fully counterbalanced crankshaft, aluminum pistons, a fully pressurized lubrication system, and a revised valvetrain. In just a few months, the new engine was ready for the dyno. It exceeded 100 hours at over 60 hp at a whopping 4,400 rpm. Success! The new engine was dubbed Go-Devil and first appeared in some of the 1939 Willys cars rated at 61 hp at 3600 rpm. In 1940, when the stylish new Willys 440 (4-cylinder, 1940) models appeared, they were all powered by the Go-Devil, as were the ’41 441 and ’42 442."


Speaking of shims:    I removed a main bearing from an F134 a year or so ago, and it was shimmed with a piece of Rainbow Bread paper:






   This bearing has a lot of life left in it.  Lots of babbit remaining and not wore through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan. 2021 at 12:57pm
What’s posted here is what I know as well.  The Willys four cylinder engine (before and after the Go Devil version) had a very long run. Versions and redesigns based on it were used into the 1970’s ... as I understand the history. 

It was my understanding the Japanese were still producing a version of the engine into the 70’s.  Does anyone know if that’s true?? 

Mitsubishi was producing a version of the 3B up to about 1990 (maybe even mid-90s??).  Does anyone know what engine was used in that jeep?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan. 2021 at 8:44pm
One of the stories I skimmed mentioned them doing a cross country drive to prove it's ruggedness.
On one section of the drive through west Texas they got over 53 MPG.
Wow!
Not bad.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2021 at 8:20am
I bet it would be very difficult to find anyone nowadays who could, or would re-cast those bearing. I am not sure, but I have wondered if the later rods with inserts will fit.

I believe the Mitsubishi "Jeep" had a modern diesel engine.

I like seeing the bearing with the bread wrapper shim. An old school "shade tree" mechanic who had been around a while fixing something instead of replacing it. Some nowadays would call that Bubba's work, but that is not what it is. I bet that bread wrapper shim job got many more miles out of that Jeep. 

I once read a story about a WW2 German submarine crew. The submarine had been sabotaged by the French prisoners forced to work for the Germans. They had loosened some of the bearing caps of the engine.

The engine failed out at sea, but was shut down due to dropping oil pressure before it was too far gone.

The clever German mechanical engineers collected the foil from all cigarette packages aboard to use as shims to tighten the bearings and get the boat back to port. Guess they didn't have any Rainbow bread sacks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill2A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2021 at 9:03am
I think I may have used foil at one time on something.
I have head that necessity can be a real mother...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2021 at 12:42pm
Would the F134 be the "Go Devil's" grandson, or son?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3A Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2021 at 4:02pm
Brought back a memory from my youth. A friend had an XK120 Jag. I used my mom's florist delivery van to take his engine to a machine shop (really bottomed out). He put the foils from chewing gum under his bearings. Worked fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2021 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Oldpappy Oldpappy wrote:

Would the F134 be the "Go Devil's" grandson, or son?


I would think SON as thats the next in line in most familys unless the F stands for Female then its the 134L's Daughter.






OK you started it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldpappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan. 2021 at 7:32pm
But, but.... 

There was the post war L134, the WW2 L134 with a chain drive cam, the post war L134 with gear drive cam, and then the F134. 


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