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The Resurrection of CJ2-26

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Fred Coldwell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct. 2018 at 6:17am
Todd scanned the front of his windshield in Maryland, but the die made from his scan was not very accurate.  So I don't imagine a scan of the rear of a JEEP stamped windshield would be much better.  Besides, I don't know anyone who has a portable scanner.  So I'll just trust Jeff to come up with a die using his excellent ingenuity.   
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Ol' Unreliable View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct. 2018 at 4:10am
I was just thinking that a scan of the front of the w/s for the female die and a scan of the back of the w/s for the male die might possibly make for a better die set.

They probably didn't put that much thought into making the dies in the first place. They probably only intended to stamp 80 pieces of sheet metal anyway, right? 
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 3:03am
Well, I've made a little more progress in the past few months.  Purchased one gallon of PPG Harvest Tan body paint and Lou painted the front radiator guard, which looks great:



In taking a closer look, I noticed two very tiny indents to the outside of the paired holes on each top side for attaching the hooped radiator brush guard:



Does anyone have any idea why these teeny tiny indents appear on the radiator guard?

After removing the T90A transmission and model 18 transfer case from the intermediate cross member, the skid plate had to removed to begin cleaning. But the threads and nuts on the 4 short carriage bolts were rusted well beyond use, so as was done with the front frame rivets, I tic-tat-toed their tops with my grinder's cut-off wheel:



and chiselled away most of the shallow cap, leaving only a small stem that was easily punched out  on the other side: 



Now I can degrease and clean both the cross member and the skid plate. 

These past few weeks were occupied with buying the parts for and installing a 240 volt 30 amp 6-30R receptacle in my garage to plug in the small red electric cube heater I bought for warming the garage.  Now I won't have to work in a meat locker as I slowly move forward during the winter. Smile


Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 3:16am
Originally posted by Fred Coldwell Fred Coldwell wrote:

Does anyone have any idea why these teeny tiny indents appear on the radiator guard?


Fred, if you don't know the reason there must not be an answer...  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LuzonRed47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 3:18am
Ain't that the truth. I thought Fred would have factory photos of the machine that made those little indents on the grills, and the names of the machine operator...
CJ2A #140275 "Ziggie" (purchased new by my dad in 1947)
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CJ3A windshield, Warn Overdrive
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 11:35am
Fred, I've seen indents like those on my 3A where footmans loops are located when certain options are installed when desired. Sort of "pre-marked." Those don't look centered or planned for the windshield strap hold down do they? Oilly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 6:31pm
So far there are no apparent answers. Oilly, no they are not. The 2 holes for the single footman loop that accepts the windshield hold down strap are in the top center of the radiator guard and are 2-1/8" on center. These tiny indents are 1-5/8" on center, so are not punch marks for installing jeep footman loops.

I reviewed the December 1943 Installation Instructions for the MB/GPW Winterization Kit WKT100 to see if these might be military accessory punch marks. But the location of the fasteners that hold on the front canvas radiator cover are determined by the location of the 6 grommet holes in the cover itself, not by any punch marks in the radiator guard.  And the grommet hole spacing is different anyway. Dead end there.

Curiously, the 1-5/8" on center distance between the punch marks matches the OC distance between the bottom holes for hooped brush guard latching hardware. But the top pair of punch marks are further apart from each other than the bottom pair of holes, so they do not line up vertically. These small upper punch marks do not appear on CJ2-09, and Charles Ellis lovingly left all the spot welds visible on CJ2-09, so its unlikely these punch marks were bondo'd over.

It makes no sense to have punch marks for different holes to install the new CJ-2 flat screen brush guard hardware when the existing top holes could have been used instead. Besides, all the new attaching hardware on the flat screen brush guard became part of the guard itself and was no longer fixed to the CJ-2 body, making the guard a self-contained one piece accessory that is easier to install and remove. So, for the time being the presence of these tiny punch marks remains a delightful mystery.  
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oilleaker1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 6:37pm
"Delightful mystery". Thumbs Up That's what I enjoy about you Fred. Love hanging out and reading/watching. Continue please. Oilly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowenuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 7:25pm
Remnants of spot welds for the attaching of the interior upper shroud? 
45 #10012
45 #10033 ACM #47
45 #10163 ACM #188
57 CJ5    Dauntless V6, T-18 4-speed, D-44 rear/D-30 front, D-20 twin stick



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by lowenuf lowenuf wrote:

Remnants of spot welds for the attaching of the interior upper shroud? 

Good suggestion Low, but looking at the inside of the radiator guard reveals the punch marks are just above the top flange of the interior upper shroud, so a spot weld there would not actually attach anything. Nor are there any spot weld marks on the flange top edge just under the punch marks. But thanks for the thought! 
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec. 2018 at 8:23pm
  Big smile  I have a book that I would go to to find out about things like this, but in this case I don't think it would do me much good - Fred wrote the book! LOL   BW
It is NOT a Jeep Willys! It is a Willys jeep.

Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 6:48am
Originally posted by Oilleaker1 Oilleaker1 wrote:

"Delightful mystery". Thumbs Up That's what I enjoy about you Fred. Love hanging out and reading/watching. Continue please. Oilly


Yes, please continue!  Whatever you post about CJ2-26 (and all the early CJs) is fascinating to me, even the most minute details.  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daron Wanberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 7:21am
Keep Going Fred
Daron
44 CJ-2 SN CJ2-14 X38 AGRIJEEP

45 2A SN 10011

46 2A SN 17558

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 2:29pm
Well, the only thing I can offer at this point is that your radiator guard is not the same as E-51032, but I don't seem to have the print for CJ2 663535.

I'm guessing there was another early type of brush guard that we haven't yet uncovered.

We could always start the rumor that was for the hook that holds the canvas water bag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 2:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Joe Friday Joe Friday wrote:

Well, the only thing I can offer at this point is that your radiator guard is not the same as E-51032, but I don't seem to have the print for CJ2 663535.  I'm guessing there was another early type of brush guard that we haven't yet uncovered. We could always start the rumor that was for the hook that holds the canvas water bag.

Hi Joe:

Thanks for your input and posting the corner block for radiator guard panel E-51032.  Information on the 663XXX series of body parts has not yet been found.  Although we have the 640000 to 649999 List of Parts Numerical (LOPN), no one has yet found the 663000 to 66???? LOPN for body parts, which would be very useful for tracking body parts development and short-lived quickly superseded body parts. Nor, to my best knowledge, has anyone yet found the trove of 663XXX series of body part engineering drawings. So we are left to fill gaps with sparse clues and much guesswork. 

The CJ-2 Bill of Materials (BOM) lists radiator brush guard field kit 663387 for the CJ-2. It includes the hooped brush guard ass'y 663236 and deflector ass'y 663247, which were used only on the first 20 Agrijeeps.  These 2 BOM pages were typed (or retyped) on 10-9-44, when 2 later parts were added, the 663393 latch plate and the 663394 deflector seal. The whole brush guard field kit seems to have been given a higher parts number 663387.  I imagine the field kit's original part number was a bit lower, something like 663235.    

The two Group 26-8 brush guard pages in the CJ-2 BOM do not list any parts for the later flat screen brush guard used on the stamped JEEP CJ-2s like CJ2-26, as often seen in PCJ book Chapter 7. Because the CJ-2s used the wider 9 slot MB radiator guard with the smaller 5" headlights, both the hooped and flat screen brush guards were wider than those later used on the CJ-2A, with its narrower 7 slot radiator guard with the larger 7" headlights. So if I ever decide to fabricate the wider and squarer flat screen brush guard for CJ2-26, I'll have to do it by eyeball and measurements.

The deeper we dig, the more questions we unearth.  I like the idea that the punch marks were for locating hooks to hold a slightly porous canvas water bag, which might help cool the radiator when resting at engine idle.  LOL LOL  See STAAW page 55 for an alternate water bag location. Wink


Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Friday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 8:07pm
Well it is still a mystery to me.

There were two different hole locations on the CJ2 Radiator guards, and the 7 slot was released to production 1/1/1945.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred Coldwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec. 2018 at 9:19pm
Joe:

The upper holes on the radiator guards for both CJ2-09 and CJ2-26 match your lower drawing: 2-1/4" between the holes, 4-5/8" from the guard (and jeep) centerline, and 9-1/4" between the pair of holes (not shown on your drawing but the correct distance nonetheless). 

The small Xs on your lower drawing show spot welds along the flange of the air deflector, but they are all within the flange itself, not above it like the punch marks. Perhaps the punch marks are an out-of-position misfire of the spot welder, and show a mark where the spot welder's upper rod was jammed into the radiator guard  before the misfire. But the even distance between the pair of marks and their matching locations on the guard makes that possibility very unlikely in my mind. Ah, the mysteries left to us by those wily Willys workers.     
Happy Jeep Trails,


Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO
1944 CJ2-09 - X-33
1945 CJ2-26 - X-50

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