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The Submarine Jeep |
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Nick_ 
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Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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 Posted: 07 June 2021 at 10:17pm |
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6 weeks until Rubicon - Doin' Time
I finally have my drivetrain straight. The long brake lines were holding the engine up crooked. Herm has special machined banjo bolts that will reroute the lines to provide my engine the clearance it needs to rest in stock position.  Did some comparison between the Scout vs Jeep D18 adapter on the T18 to decide if I was going to stick with what I had (Scout). I read online the Scout has 26 degrees of clocking while the Jeep has 20. Thus, by the time 6 degrees reaches output yokes that is approximately 1.5" difference in ground clearance. It's great for driveshaft angle, but horrible for off-roading. You can see in the photo below my tcase is actually hanging below the crossmember. Even with a factory style oil pan it will still hang below. The only benefit I see for a flat fender is to use the Scout adapter in order to raise the entire drivetrain upwards in the Jeep.  Found an M38 diff cover for the Dana 25. This is much thicker than the standard CJ, meaning less prone to leaking and stronger against rocks.  Took advantage of low humidity and painted the drivetrain in 33070 olive drab.   Front axle only in primer as I'll spray bomb flat desert tan to somewhat match the rest of the chassis. Working on the knuckle stud conversion now. This is a Dana 27. I installed new oil seals and welded the center section a couple months ago. Simply replacing the old front axle because I didn't like the limited slip.  My rock sliders looked cool, but they flex way too easily. In their defense I was tipped on the passenger side.  Mocked up the Big Willy sliders. Because my tub was homemade, the side steps are a few inches longer than stock. Looks like I'll need to cut down the main piece and make my own step cover.  Edited by Nick_ - 07 June 2021 at 10:19pm |
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chasendeer
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Joined: 24 Feb. 2012 Location: Napa,CA Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
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Posted: 08 June 2021 at 12:30am |
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Glad to see you got your parts. Are you going to use the spacer on the crossmember?
Jay
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Nick_
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Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Posted: 08 June 2021 at 6:43pm |
I don't have correct parts yet. Hopefully tomorrow. I'm using the 1" crossmember drop with the Jeep adapter for the sake of driveshaft angles. According to Tom Woods driveshaft, I'm already at the limits.
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chasendeer
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Joined: 24 Feb. 2012 Location: Napa,CA Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
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Posted: 09 June 2021 at 12:02am |
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Wouldn’t it be the same angle as a stock t90?? Transfer case bolts to same location as a t90.
Jay
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chasendeer
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Joined: 24 Feb. 2012 Location: Napa,CA Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
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Posted: 09 June 2021 at 12:27am |
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Never mind it moved back!!
Jay
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73 cj5
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Joined: 07 Feb. 2014 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Posted: 09 June 2021 at 2:29am |
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What is your driveshaft angle?
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CJ3B
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Nick_
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Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Posted: 14 June 2021 at 9:54pm |
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5 weeks until Rubicon - It ain't much, but it's honest work This week I focused on the front axle. I began to remove the "original" Dana 25 from the 'Sub. All the wheel bearings were repacked before it's last venture into the water. Unfortunately, I found they were all rusted and destroyed. One was so rusty that after pushing the Jeep around with the forklift, I actually spun a passenger side bearing race on the spindle. Although the old engine was waterproof, I've continuously found the rest of the Jeep was not. So much money wasted on bearings...  Old axle removed.  The get-me-by Dana 27 has repacked king pin bearings, set shims, painted desert tan and installed onto the Jeep.  A co-worker machined the knuckles for the stud conversion. This will prevent the bolts from sheering out of the threads in aggressive situations.  Prepared the full floating Dana 44 rear to be rebuilt. I welded up the original breather hole, then drilled and tapped the housing for a barb fitting to use with a remote ventilation line. From prior experience I know the axle will still suck in water... Also welded the original wheel bearing grease vent holes shut as they're no longer necessary with the full floater kit.  Still waiting for the correct transfercase adapter to arrive, as well as all the shift linkages. I should know by Friday if Holley will ship out the fuel injection setup. These two items will determine how the following weeks go. Nonetheless, I'm absolutely stoked to finish up the Jeep and take it across the country.
I can't remember at the moment, but will document this when I get the drivetrain reinstalled.
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Nick_
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Sponsor Member Joined: 05 May 2014 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 1132 |
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Posted: 20 June 2021 at 10:42pm |
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4 weeks until Rubicon - Ravioli, ravioli, give me the formuoli
Summing up this week's progress:  To showcase I'm not actually a slacker, here's a picture of the 3 incorrect tcase adapters I've received. More on this next update.  The 1-1/4 studs just barely fit the Chevy disc brake bracket. I left the dust shields off to gain as much bolt thread as possible.  With deeper gearing and aggressive tractor tires, I wanted as much clutch power as possible. The ultimate setup is the 9-1/4" from an early CJ5. Left is the new pressure plate, right is the stock 8-1/2". The clamping power will make a huge difference.  With the 9-1/4" clutch, you need a flywheel with the larger bolt pattern. You can simply buy one of these flywheels, but the issue lies in the crankshaft dowel pins. Early Jeep engines have tapered pins while later do not. Had I known about this, I would have swapped out the dowels during the engine rebuild, as mine are tapered. Also would have changed the timing marks from flywheel to timing cover. To solve this issue, I had a buddy machine the big pattern onto my original tapered flywheel. I also had it resurfaced and a new pilot bushing installed.  My ring gear was trashed up and my bellhousing had a broken ear. I decided the best route was to install a 129 tooth ring gear and matching bellhousing from a CJ5... because these two items can be used with a cheap, common, high-torque Toyota starter. Ultima #16224.  The 129 tooth setup pushes the starter away from the engine. My old engine plate wouldn't fit the new bellhousing (too small), so I whipped up a new one. The bolt pattern on the Toyota starter isn't exactly correct for a Willys bellhousing. People report filing open the top starter hole, and using a smaller bolt for the lower hole like a 3/8 or 7/16 instead of the 1/2. Because of this, the hole in the engine plate is what truly aligns the starter to the bellhousing - not the bolts themselves. Thus, my homemade plate will not work as my starter hole is a tick too big. Left is old plate for 124 tooth, right is 129.  With heavy rainstorms, the obsolete Submarine parts were laid to rest just as I intended - underwater.  Edited by Nick_ - 20 June 2021 at 11:23pm |
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chasendeer
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Joined: 24 Feb. 2012 Location: Napa,CA Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
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Posted: 20 June 2021 at 10:58pm |
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Hopefully you can find the right adaptor and put this to rest.
Jay
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Nick_
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Posted: 27 June 2021 at 10:41pm |
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3 weeks until Rubicon - We have liftoff
I owe a huge thanks to chansendeer aka Jay of Jay's WWII Jeeps. He found a T98 for sale with the adapter I needed. He picked up the transmission, removed the adapter, mailed it to me all in the same day. It took just 3 days for it to travel from California to Indiana. Jay has been more helpful than the vendor I purchased the setup from. Adapting the T98/T18 to a D18: There are a few key items you need for a correct setup. Because this transmission/tcase setup was offered in multiple vehicles with various configurations, you need to find the correct items for your Jeep. 1. Correct clocking: A Jeep transfercase mounts horizontally, while an IH Scout transfercase is clocked downwards. If you look at the adapters below, you will see on the adapter furthest left that all 4 top holes are horizontal. The two topmost holes being for the trans, and the holes right below those are for the top of the tcase. Notice the following 3 adapters on the right. The left top tcase hole is inline with the trans hole, while the right top is far below the trans hole. 2. Bore size. As we all know, the D18 came in a small bore and a large bore input hole. 99% of D18's are a small bore, with the exception being a "super D18" that came behind the 1970-71 CJ5 with Dauntless 225 V6 with flanged rear axle. All D20's are a large bore. You can build a large bore D18 by using a D20 case and D18 internals. 3. Transmission bolt pattern. The T98/T18 can have either a 6 bolt or 4 bolt pattern. Pictured left to right: 1. Jeep clocking, large bore, 6 bolt pattern. 2. Scout clocking, large bore, 6 bolt pattern. 3. Scout clocking, small bore, 6 bolt pattern. 4. Scout clocking, large bore, 4 bolt pattern.  These two cast iron adapters are factory original. You can find either style clocking, and either style bore size. These two are large bore.  The Advanced Adapters are all Scout clocking, and they do not offer Jeep clocking. At this time I am unsure if Novak offers correct Jeep clocking.   Fair Warning That adapter information is key to a perfect Jeep setup. It's very interesting how I was able to learn all this information in just a couple weeks, while the so-called Jeep specialty vendor was absolutely clueless when I called to explain there are different style adapters. I find it very hard to believe I'm the first person in years to find their kit didn't even bolt together. To summarize my $6500 nightmare with this place: 1. An "8 week build" took months longer than anticipated, and was only shipped because I practically begged over the phone to get it finished for this trip. 2. Multiple parts were not shipped with the transmission setup, and there was no intention to ever send them due to absolute disorganization. During the adapter fiasco, the still MIA parts were either not sent at all, or incorrect parts were sent in their place. 3. Nearly impossible to speak with them after payment. If they answer, you get rushed off the phone. I will say the son was the most helpful person there. 4. Incorrect adapter for the tcase. 5. Incorrect tcase mount. 6. Half the tcase and overdrive bolts were loose. 7. Multiple gaskets did not have Permatex on them where absolutely necessary. The shift tower gasket was installed over a mixture of rust/spray paint, not even a wire brushed surface. 8. The aftermarket overdrive casting was too large, and it sits uneven against the tcase. I immediately noticed the gasket did not seal all the way around. It took some grinding to make everything fit. Wouldn't this be noticed by an expert shop? I'm not one to bash a small business, but this was beyond unacceptable. I spent $6500 for the luxury of having a perfect drop-in solution. Rather I paid a premium to spend dozens of hours backtracking the work of "experts."    Dozens of wasted hours later, the trans setup is finally where it should have been as I ordered it.  I made some pretty good progress this week. Front hubs rebuilt with all new bearings, races, and seals. Clutch setup is installed.  Engine accessories almost all installed.  The engine itself has been installed into the Jeep. Transmission will go in early this week, and I hope to test drive by next weekend.  Edited by Nick_ - 27 June 2021 at 11:58pm |
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chasendeer
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Joined: 24 Feb. 2012 Location: Napa,CA Status: Offline Points: 1086 |
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Posted: 28 June 2021 at 8:29am |
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Nick
Glad I was able to help out. I feel your pain on many of these same issues I had on my build. Looks forward to seeing it in 4 weeks!! Jay
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Pope891
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Joined: 13 May 2018 Location: Ridgefield, CT Status: Offline Points: 378 |
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Posted: 28 June 2021 at 2:02pm |
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Thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff.
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EJOWest
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Joined: 07 May 2020 Location: Petaluma, CA Status: Offline Points: 77 |
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Posted: 01 July 2021 at 2:09pm |
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I talked to Novak today. They said their adapter is clocked as the Jeep adapter however it’s drilled out for a Ford T18 bolt pattern.
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Nick_
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Posted: 12 July 2021 at 12:05am |
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1 week until Rubicon - Reversing the Curse Today is Monday, July 12th. I would like the Jeep mechanically "finished" by Sunday the 18th. This gives me the rest of the week to pack, maintain my trailer, etc. The last 2 weeks feel like a blur. Tons of progress! Of course, not as much progress as I'd like for a ridiculous deadline. The weekend of the 4th I was gone enjoying the holiday. I did, however, start making a transmission tunnel and fitting a stock fuel tank, as my old one hits the tcase.  With the new fuel tank, I'm able to lower my seats for 3x the comfort. Unfortunately, I don't have time to continue this project. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down to ratchet-strapping the old fuel tank in the rear compartment and making a bridge to support the seat frames over the top of the tcase. 
Finalized the transmission crossmember to fit the T98. This requires welding a bracket on the back side to mount to the tcase adapter. In true Herm the Overdrive fashion, the bracket had incorrect bolt pattern and I had to cut the center section out to weld in a patch, then drill my own holes.  With the correct tcase adapter installed, it threw off my overdrive "stick out" measurement. Herm recommends .677, and I was at .647. You'd think when he sent me other tcase adapters he would include a shim pack - but did not. I found some thick shims but none small enough to get the job done. I had the overdrive spacer machined down to make the thick shim work.   I would like to reiterate Herm the Overdrive Guy's official website statement regarding this T98 setup: "This transmission has the 15/16″ input shaft and is a direct replacement for the T-90 3-speed transmission with the short shaft. This T-98 conversion kit will use the same clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bushing, throw out arm, and all stock clutch linkage. This transmission is completely rebuilt with a new front and rear adapter installed. This conversion kit is strictly a 4 cylinder application replacement. These conversion kits are sold as complete assemblies only. No individual parts are available separately." Important sections bolded. If this is their idea of a complete, drop-in 4 cylinder T98 setup, I can't imagine what they consider incomplete. This $6500 order is the biggest piece of trash I have ever received. If I wasn't rushing to get this done in time for my Rubicon trip, I would drop-kick this T98 setup into the scrap bin. Omix-ADA might as well be concourse quality compared to what I've received from the Jeep expert shop. Months after the transmission to shipped, they sent me all the shift linkages. One would assume overdrive linkage for a T98 would clear the transfercase shift levers. Nope. Perhaps, it would clear the T98 shifter. Nope One would assume the T98 shift lever would be either new, or refurbished so it isn't sloppier than a soup sandwich. Nope. If this shifter was a globe, you could collide America with China all while locked in first gear. One would assume the T98 shifter would actually fit a 4 cylinder Jeep application. Nope. It's from a Ford pickup truck, and it almost sticks out past the steering wheel. One would assume when I ordered a tcase without the interlock pin, it would not have the interlock pin. Nope. I'm very lucky to have years of prior experience working on Willys Jeeps, and a full machine shop at my fingertips. I can't imagine someone new to the hobby in a small garage receiving this trash and attempting to make it work without wanting to sell the entire project. I have been fixing Herm's mistakes for the last 2 months.
Moving onto Omix-ADA, the new exhaust manifold was a bit disappointing. The heat riser flap was welded in the incorrect position, so the counterweight was actually contacting the intake manifold before the riser flap fully closed (see the slot in the pic below). I had to pencil grind the welds off and re-weld in the correct position.  The exhaust outlets aren't even round. Inner tubes are full of cast beads.  Nonetheless, I have fixed the exhaust manifold and added necessary fittings to the intake. The brass fitting will be hooked to my vacuum gauge on the dash.  I'm happy how the custom clutch linkage turned out. As the T98 is physically wider, I had to shorten the clutch z-bar so it fits between the frame. Then I had to extend both the clutch pedal linkage and the clutch fork linkage.  Clutch fork linkage was a bit tricky. I used some 3/8-24 threaded rod as extension, then welded a tube across it and the original 5/16 rod. The extension tube has 4 holes drilled in the center so I could add some welds for extra strength.  Picture of the fully assembled linkage. It just barely clears the trans and floor. Note: The clutch z-bar has two tabs. The tallest tab connects to the clutch fork, as it provides the most throw.  Rebuilt carb thanks to a guy at work.  With my old M151 Mutt radiator setup, the lower tube is on the wrong side. I stopped by Autozone to grab some hoses and made a clean crossover setup.  Installed a 105 amp alternator for use with winches and electric fans.  Huge thanks to my neighbor who stopped by after a trip off-roading his CJ2A. He made the spark plug wires for me, and helped to install the clutch linkage. I'll bet he shaved off a day of work for me!  We're getting close to driving!!  I don't mean to be negative or bash vendors, but it is beyond frustrating to spend thousands of dollars to receive absolute trash. Are these products the ones we wish to present to enthusiasts?
Edited by Nick_ - 12 July 2021 at 12:08am |
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jpet
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Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11173 |
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Posted: 12 July 2021 at 9:04am |
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I would bring an original TC input gear and nut just in case you have problems with you overdrive on the trail. Not much shakedown time left.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Rick G
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Joined: 17 May 2015 Location: Amarillo, TX Status: Offline Points: 1467 |
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Posted: 12 July 2021 at 11:03am |
I always carry a spare input gear and nut with me. Always been nervous about the design of the OD unit, but never had any issues with it at all. Spare input gear gives me peace of mind. I’ve actually contemplated taking the OD unit off altogether. Not sure it really adds a significant advantage, except coolness factor of having another shift lever sticking up to confuse people, which is the main reason I leave it on. 😎
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Nick_
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Posted: 12 July 2021 at 1:00pm |
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Unfortunately I don't have a gear for the Teralow, or else I'd bring it. Do any of you guys have one?
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jpet
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Posted: 12 July 2021 at 1:32pm |
 Edited by jpet - 12 July 2021 at 2:19pm |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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chasendeer wrote: