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Thinking about axles and transfer case

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Hank_ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Mar. 2020 at 9:42am
Since my project is a mismatch of parts from who knows where I was thinking about swapping in a Ford 8.8 and a high pinion dana 30.  Both are readily available, can get both with factory 4:10 gearing and both have disc brakes.  I will be running a 225 odd-fire and a T18 trans.  I have not decided on a transfer case yet and figured I should resolve the axle question before I move forward.  The Willys currently has a dana 27 front and dana 44 rear.  If I did go with these the other axles what transfer case would you use?  Dana 300 or ?

Thanks for any insight you can give,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar. 2020 at 11:08am
When I added a centered rear diff,  I went with Dana 300,  mainly because I already had one . . . a couple things to think about.    The tranny mounting surface is round,  which allows the adaptors to permit "clocking" the angle of case.    Early 80's D300's had a shorter output yoke,  and there are even shorter ones available from Novak.   (The longer the rear driveshaft the better.)  :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nofender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2020 at 4:20am
question is - what are you looking to gain from such a swap? Does it match your needs? 

I've done two 8.8 swaps into YJs. I love that axle. It offers some major beef in a compact package. I would say the only negative would be the c-clip shafts. That said, I never had an issue, even with a warmed up 360 torturing them. 

The 30 swap - not a fan. You'd have to find one without the funky axle disconnect thing integrated into the axle tube. I may be wrong, but that axle only came in one year of the Cherokee and a few years of the TJ. If you find one of those, it's an axle that can stand some abuse. Other than those, I don't see a lot of gain/value in this axle. This is also a unit bearing axle - so no chance to add a locking hub. If I'm recalling correctly, the way the perches are set up, you would likely have to outboard your springs do to the way the housing is cast on the YJ version. You might have some more flexibility on a coil sprung axle that you've cleaned up. But that, I don't know. 

You would need new wheels as those axles have the 5x4.5 pattern. Also the axles are quite a bit wider than a stock flatty. So you'd have to consider that. Would you need new wheels, or adapters? 

As mentioned the D300 is a great case. But the front output is on the passenger side. The HP Dana 30 is on the driver side. So this leaves you with a chain drive 231 or 241 t-case. You'd need to do a slip yoke eliminator in order to get that t-case to a reasonable, usable length. You could source and early Bronco case. That would get things lined up as well.....if you could find a reasonably priced one.

Don't know if that helps or hurts. But that's what I can recall on those axles. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2020 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by nofender nofender wrote:

.... I may be wrong, but that axle only came in one year of the Cherokee and a few years of the TJ. If you find one of those, it's an axle that can stand some abuse. Other than those, I don't see a lot of gain/value in this axle. This is also a unit bearing axle - so no chance to add a locking hub. If I'm recalling correctly, the way the perches are set up, you would likely have to outboard your springs do to the way the housing is cast on the YJ version. You might have some more flexibility on a coil sprung axle that you've cleaned up. But that, I don't know. 

You would need new wheels as those axles have the 5x4.5 pattern. Also the axles are quite a bit wider than a stock flatty. So you'd have to consider that. Would you need new wheels, or adapters?....

Mid-'70s CJs used a Dana 30 front axle.  No unit bearings or center axle disconnect, and 5 on 5.5".  I don't know when they went into use, but I'm pretty sure they ran like that up to the end of "CJ" production.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nofender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2020 at 12:20pm
OP was looking for the HP version which is a completely different animal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2020 at 12:51pm
T18 works very well if properly mated to a Dauntless 225.
For flatties an adapterless connect from T18 to bellhousing is certainly best.
And so a Flatty Dauntless /T18 combo is shortest when mated to a Dana 18 or Dana 20.

Personally I believe the  flanged Jeep Dana 44's (1970 through 1975) and  Jeep narrow track Dana 30's (1972 through 1981) to be near optimum for most CJ uses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2020 at 1:00pm
Under compression, my front drive shaft rubs against my bell housing even though I have cut the bell housing away as much as I can. This is why I haven't even considered a hi pinion in the front and I can't begin to think about clocking the TC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nothing Special Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar. 2020 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by nofender nofender wrote:

OP was looking for the HP version which is a completely different animal. 

Oops, I missed that.  Yeah, high pinion Dana 30s aren't the nice direct replacements that the CJ low pinion versions are.
Bob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Y2GREY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar. 2020 at 5:28am

While it did take several years of searching to locate all the components to complete the build (are they ever really complete?) I'm very happy with my set-up. Dauntless 225 backed up by a wide ration T18 out of a CJ5 (this did require an adapter to the bell housing however the t-case was a direct bolt on) the transfer case is a "super 18" with a 4:86 low range customer twin stick and no interlock. Rear axle is a d44, locked in 4.27 with a full floater conversion and 11 inch drums. The front is a locked d30 in 4.27 with disc brakes. She is SOA with rear springs on all corners and rolls on 35s. No overdrive needed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar. 2020 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by jpet jpet wrote:

Under compression, my front drive shaft rubs against my bell housing even though I have cut the bell housing away as much as I can. This is why I haven't even considered a hi pinion in the front and I can't begin to think about clocking the TC.

THIS!!!!!  I bought a F250 high pinion D44 to narrow for my 3B.  After just setting stuff sort of in place, it was more than obvious that the front driveshaft was never going to work with any sbc bell housing.  I ended up with a narrowed low pinion version of the same and even that is a close fit at full stuff.

I would be another to just use the low pinion CJ D30.  They can be built to stand anything the 225 can deliver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hank_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar. 2020 at 8:07pm
Lots of great info guys.  I will stick with the low pinion front axle assy then.  This jeep will mostly be for tooling around on some short summer drives and some trail rides.  Not much in the way of rocks for crawling.  We have sand dunes and we do some winter wheeling in deep snow.  I liked the idea of the Ford 8.8 was the basic strength of the unit.  I know it would require wheels or adapters which does not bother me.  I have a set of cool old CJ Levi edition aluminum slots I was thinking of using.  I may stick with the stock axles but I like the idea of getting ideas out of my head so I do waste time or money when I can use others experience to help.  Thumbs Up

Thanks for the info,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmynamsnit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar. 2020 at 8:20am
My axle question is will 78 CJ7-248 axles fit in a 51 M38?  My first quick measurements look very close?

Will the 78 axles take more torque than the than the 51?

Thanks in advance

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar. 2020 at 6:16pm
Welcome to the page, Jimmynamsni!
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