To NDT or not to NDT that is the question |
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RSR_MK
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Location: Cabool Mo Status: Offline Points: 657 |
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Lots of good information and opinions posted and I would not argue with any of it. I use my jeeps the same way as you. My concern about erosion is the same. I’m currently running 600 and 700 NTD’s. Size definitely makes a difference with them. I have never used the 750’s but with the difference I see I would expect them to be an improvement in traction. I also run 650’s in a mud and snow which work well. For your use I doubt you would see much difference.
One thing I felt I should bring up is the change gear ratio you will see. It is noticeable mostly between the 600 and 700 size. I like the 600’s a lot poking around the farm and on the dirt roads. I rarely run over 30 mph and can stay in third with the 600’s. I have an overdrive on the one running 700’s and have plenty of gears but it’s just nice not to have to use them. Just a little different look at it. Mike
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lhfarmbt
Member Joined: 19 Aug. 2005 Location: Central Indiana Status: Offline Points: 618 |
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I'm looking forward to that reporting. I've always wondered why Willys used 7.00-15 tires instead of the standard 6.00-16 at the Nebraska tractor tests and also why not a tractor tire. In all the post 2a introduction promotional films I've viewed only one, made in California and produced by a hydraulic lift maker, used tires that were not NDTs. Barry
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https://www.farmjeep.com/
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Bob W
Member Sponsor Member x 4 Joined: 08 Aug. 2005 Location: Monticello, NY Status: Offline Points: 1693 |
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Because the 7.00-15 was the same height as the 6.00-16, but the 7.00-15 was wider.
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lhfarmbt
Member Joined: 19 Aug. 2005 Location: Central Indiana Status: Offline Points: 618 |
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Thanks Bob! I guess the next question is was the 15" wheel "standard" on the Farm Jeep model or the Jeep Tractor? Barry |
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https://www.farmjeep.com/
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windyhill
Member Joined: 14 Mar. 2009 Location: North East PA Status: Offline Points: 1395 |
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Yep, it gets worse as tires get older and the colder it is or the longer they sit. My dump truck rides pretty lumpy for a while till the tires heat up. I Love the tractor tire look on a flatty by the way!
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'48 CJ2A
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Hi all,
As described in the video, I am not saying that AG tires or NDTs in general are better or worse, blah blah. What I am saying is that I ran Deestone 7.50-16 AG tires and STA 7.50-16 NDT tires on 6” wide wheels at 10 psi, on the same or very similar Jeep under the same conditions and these are the video results. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jhg
Member Joined: 07 Nov. 2016 Location: colorado Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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Interesting.
In the reversed chevron section showing them roll over as they pulled on a rock edge: would in that case higher tire pressure create a better grip (less/no rollover) or would the accompanying loss of traction from higher pressure on other surfaces be too high a price to pay for climbing one specific type obstacle?
Edited by jhg - 29 Apr. 2023 at 11:04pm |
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1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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otto
Member Joined: 26 Feb. 2012 Location: Orygun Status: Online Points: 2267 |
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Interesting video, looked like a real-world comparison to me.
It might be intriguing to measure the compounds of the different tires with a durometer to compare the softness of the rubber, and to put a number on it.
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47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A 64 Ford Econoline Travelwagon If you can't get there in a Jeep, get a motorcycle! |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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That’s what I was thinking too.
I highly suspect the Deestone’s are less flexible / more stiffness and quicker to wear.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Even when I air up, I can still flex the edges of these chevrons by hand a little bit. The lugs on the NDTs are shorter, wider, and they are supported in the middle. I think these chevrons may perform better in the rocks if they were shorter but then, they would be less effective in the mud. … I think in the end, it is simply the amount tread on the rocks. If you look at the very first picture in the video, you can clearly see that there is not much rubber touching a flat surface. In short, the ag tires are great at doing what they were designed to do. Drive on dirt and mud.
I said it in the video, and I’ll say it again here. I don’t think that NDTs are a “great” off road tire. I run them because I think they are cool. I do think they are better than people give them credit for, off-road that is. Edited by jpet - 30 Apr. 2023 at 7:38am |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Hi Barry,
To answer the original question, I think these deestone ag tires would be a great solution on a farm Jeep. 1. Work great in dirt and mud 2. $125 a piece (you can’t beat that) 3. Don’t leak when running tubeless 4. Tread look period correct I will say that if it is up hill loose dirt, you may not like them. Other tires won’make it either but they won’t plow up a mess like these do. We have muddy ditches here in southern IL. Some spots I can’t get up with any tires but tge ag tires will dig down till you are on your skid plates. Edit: if you want to try these tires out, you can borrow them. They are mounted on 6” wide wheels Edited by jpet - 30 Apr. 2023 at 8:01am |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Since I’ve started giving my opinions, I might as well keep going.
This we can agree on. Super Traxions: I have never run these tires but I have wheeled with many who do run them and testify that they are an improvement over NDTs off-road. I also have shot lots of video of these people demonstrating the contrary. I have never posted it out of respect. So, let me say that I respectfully disagree and I accept the challenge to get together and make a video like the NDT AG tire video. I’ve also heard the statement, “Don’t you think tire technology has improved over 70 years?” My answer to that is “yes … but not as much as marketing strategies”. Edited by jpet - 30 Apr. 2023 at 8:46am |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jhg
Member Joined: 07 Nov. 2016 Location: colorado Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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NDT's have always impressed me by what they can do. That design has been there and done that for sure.
That is part of the allure, as suggested or inferred someplace, of using a tire more or less period "correct" on our jeeps. The only negative I have seen running Traxions is mud loading because of the central running band chevrons being a hard surface biased design rather than off road biased. Where their performance falls vs other designs I have no personal knowledge or experience to offer so will be super interested in seeing a video like this one featuring the Traxions.
A fun video to watch. I learned a lot. Edited by jhg - 30 Apr. 2023 at 9:10am |
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1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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Scratch
Member Joined: 30 July 2019 Location: Hudson, WI Status: Offline Points: 1457 |
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Good video, thanks for taking the time to change all those tires!
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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thanks jeff. as always, excellent info.
i have both sets of tires also and my experience has been similar to yours. i was always wondering why not run the chevrons backwards. i have a very soft muddy field and a road that stays wet/muddy that NDTs get stuck in ALWAYS. the AG tires, not at all. the AG tires fill the wheel wells with mud so, yes, they are good at tread clearing! i will give changing the chevrons around to see if they change the "pull" in the mud. in regards to my comment previously on the AG tire on the road, it seemed that there may have been uninformed opinion that they were outright dangerous on the road. i do not drive them on highway. only rural backroads. but they do not feel unsafe at all at up to 50 mph. i am driving very conservatively. yes, they are noisy.
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Strangely enough, driving them on an oil road seems to be quieter than a concrete road. Not sure why. Some people commented on the video that some farmers run the front chevrons backwards and leave the rear in the forward. I think this is mainly so they have traction when backing up.
I think that running them backwards will not tear up the property as much and might be better for driving on rocks because the tread is designed to clean the dirt out from the tread but possibly running them backwards pulls the dirt and rock into the tire which may be better. I’m still thinking about that one. I driven the tires a 50+ mph. No fear of control but maybe feel A little better backwards. Yes, they are not DOT approved but if the DOT ever took a look at BAM BAM, I’d be in big trouble on a number of fronts. Edited by jpet - 30 Apr. 2023 at 11:39am |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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Jeff J
Member Joined: 12 Mar. 2018 Location: USA Status: Online Points: 441 |
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I used to watch “Truck Night in America”. One truck ran chevrons and it didn’t seem like anything traction related slowed him down.
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smfulle
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 16 Sep. 2010 Location: Ogden, Utah Status: Offline Points: 6143 |
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Good job on the comparison Jeff.
A reminder for everyone that our friend Ron (jeeofever) has done a very similar experiment/comparison of NDTs to Supertraxion. Here’s the thread.
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