To NDT or not to NDT that is the question |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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One cannot deny what Jeffs video reveals. That said there exist no tread design nor any rubber compound that excels in all substrates, in all climates, on all terrains and driving conditions. Over the years via of my limited experiences and observations I have come to a few generalized conclusions. Tall, skinny tires generally rule for multiple various reasons. There exist 4 basic tread designs (excluding non treaded tires) 1) Chevrons 2) Bar treads 3) Sawtoothed 4) Ribbed There are very many tires using some form of chevron design. Everything from paddle tires to agricultural to knobbies and more. Directional chevron tires always excel at dumping sticky loadable substrates. The stickier the substrate the more you need an aggressive chevron. Here in the Missouri, Mississippi River bottoms we have a soil called black stick. If you walk across a field of black stick your boots will certainly load up with 20 pounds on each boot. Only the deep lugged agricultural chevrons can dump that kind of mud. That’s why these tires are often referred to as “dumpers”. Because of their dumping action these tires also dig deep. The sticky loadable offroad substrates mainly include snow, mud and dirt. Chevrons are not needed for dry heavy non loading substrates like gravel, sand, rock. Full bar treads are few and far between NDT’s are an offset bar tread design. The bar tread designs excel at mechanical grip because the tread is set at a right angle to the direction of travel. The open bar treads tend to rate 2nd place when dumping sticky substrates. The bar treads dig but not near so much as the chevrons. Bar treads excellent at mechanical grip. Especially on rock sizes that are larger than the tread voids. Sawtooth tread patterns tend to notably quite the road noise while still providing some amount of mechanical grip. They do not dig much nor do they dump very well unless the tread void is very large. Ribbed treads excel where steering control and flotation is required. They do not dig , dump nor supply any mechanical grip excepting that of the rubber compound. Ribbed treads only supply steering and side slip control. These tires will excel in loose sand and when sidling on hills. They are also very quiet on pavement. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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JeepFever
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Aug. 2012 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2753 |
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Came across this photo just now. Thought is was interesting that this border patrol Jeep was running ag tires, mounted backwards. Wonder if that was intentional?
Edited by JeepFever - 30 Apr. 2023 at 6:43pm |
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AKoller
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 19 Sep. 2018 Location: Moundridge Kans Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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I was along with Jeff for most of his testing on the ag tires. He was really about as thorough as a guy can be. He went to a lot of work switching tires back and forth. I think he really wanted the ag tires to work as well if not better than the NDTs in at least Missouri. If you have wheeled southern Missouri before you know how hard that terrain is on tires. It sure would be nice to be able to run an inexpensive tire there. Out of the places the two tires were tested southern Missouri was the place I noticed the biggest difference in capability. There was a very noticeable difference in traction. In Moab I could see slight differences but like Jeff has said, you can make almost any tire work out there. There was only one place in Moab I saw a noticeable difference in the ag tire compared to the NDTs. That was Hells Revenge on the Escalator. Coming out of the bowl the NDTs did better with the mixture of water and oil that covers your tires while going through. I think that boils down to them just having more ground contact.
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1950 CJ3A "Thumper"
1966 M151 A1 1942 GPW #70221 |
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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hows 'bout these:
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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all the xtra features everyone is asking for. too bad its not still 1957.
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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The more I think about these ag tires, the more I think that it may just be these Deestones that are not so good on rocks. They are very soft and flexible. I noticed our tractor at work has Goodyear ag tires and the chevrons are much stiffer than these Deestones. Something to consider.
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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I heard a long time ago that when used on road the common Deestone mud
/snow tread pattern tires yield a very poor service life.
Edited by oldtime - 13 May 2023 at 8:56pm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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anybody experienced with Power King Super Traction II tires?
15 inch is $115, 16 inch $150, free ship at walmart. STA Super Traxion and Firestone NDT's seem to all be well over $250 each now.
Edited by bight - 13 May 2023 at 9:26pm |
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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jhg
Member Joined: 07 Nov. 2016 Location: colorado Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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I recall every winter my Dad bought "snow tires" for the cars rears to get us through the Maine winters. One season and they were pretty much toast. When we built a house with a 3/4 mile driveway and plowed, our truck had these type tires as well. Super poor wear that was usually uneven. These all had the basic tread design we are talking about. Heavier vehicles though, so that does influence wear. I don't think on our jeeps it is much an issue but I don't run on pavement with my Traxions like many of you do/will.
Edited by jhg - 15 May 2023 at 9:26am |
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1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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Power King Super Traction II. LT7.00-15. $115 delivered.
Edited by bight - 26 May 2023 at 10:05pm |
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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That looks like a near exact copy of the famous Goodyear X-tra Grip - Hi Miler
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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holey-moley, it does!
what a bizarre coincidence.
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Whoops. Already saw you posted size and where? Sorry
Edited by Michaeltru - 26 May 2023 at 7:09pm |
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Mike in AZ
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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mfg photo:
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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bight
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 20 Aug. 2020 Location: mid coast maine Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
CJ-2A 197624 green (resto-mod) the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE) |
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Michaeltru
Member Sponsor Member x 3 Joined: 22 Oct. 2012 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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Looks like the tread pattern is different between your first photo and the link
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Mike in AZ
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