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To NDT or not to NDT that is the question

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oldtime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2023 at 1:51pm
One cannot deny what Jeffs video reveals.
That said there exist no tread design nor any rubber compound that excels in all substrates, in all climates, on all terrains and driving conditions.

Over the years via of my limited experiences and observations I have come to a few generalized conclusions.
Tall, skinny tires generally rule for multiple various reasons. 
There exist 4 basic tread designs (excluding non treaded tires)
1) Chevrons
2) Bar treads
3) Sawtoothed
4) Ribbed

There are very many tires using some form of chevron design. Everything from paddle tires to agricultural to knobbies and more.
Directional chevron tires always excel at dumping sticky loadable substrates. The stickier the substrate the more you need an aggressive chevron.
Here in the Missouri, Mississippi River bottoms we have a soil called black stick. If you walk across a field of black stick your boots will certainly load up with 20 pounds on each boot.
Only the deep lugged agricultural chevrons can dump that kind of mud.
That’s why these tires are often referred to as “dumpers”.
Because of their dumping action these tires also dig deep.
The sticky loadable offroad substrates mainly include snow, mud and dirt.
Chevrons are not needed for dry heavy non loading substrates like gravel, sand, rock.

Full bar treads are few and far between
NDT’s are an offset bar tread design.
The bar tread designs excel at mechanical grip because the tread is set at a right angle to the direction of travel. The open bar treads tend to rate 2nd place when dumping sticky substrates. The bar treads dig but not near so much as the chevrons.
Bar treads excellent at mechanical grip.
Especially on rock sizes that are larger than the tread voids.

Sawtooth tread patterns tend to notably quite the road noise while still providing some amount of mechanical grip.
They do not dig much nor do they dump very well unless the tread void is very large.

Ribbed treads excel where steering control and flotation is required. They do not dig , dump nor supply any mechanical grip excepting that of the rubber compound. Ribbed treads only supply steering and side slip control. These tires will excel in loose sand and when sidling on hills.
They are also very quiet on pavement.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr. 2023 at 6:39pm
Came across this photo just now.   Thought is was interesting that this border patrol Jeep was running ag tires,  mounted backwards.   Wonder if that was intentional?




Edited by JeepFever - 30 Apr. 2023 at 6:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AKoller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 7:21am
I was along with Jeff for most of his testing on the ag tires. He was really about as thorough as a guy can be. He went to a lot of work switching tires back and forth. I think he really wanted the ag tires to work as well if not better than the NDTs in at least Missouri. If you have wheeled southern Missouri before you know how hard that terrain is on tires. It sure would be nice to be able to run an inexpensive tire there. Out of the places the two tires were tested southern Missouri was the place I noticed the biggest difference in capability. There was a very noticeable difference in traction. In Moab I could see slight differences but like Jeff has said, you can make almost any tire work out there. There was only one place in Moab I saw a noticeable difference in the ag tire compared to the NDTs. That was Hells Revenge on the Escalator. Coming out of the bowl the NDTs did better with the mixture of water and oil that covers your tires while going through. I think that boils down to them just having more ground contact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2023 at 8:14pm
hows 'bout these:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2023 at 8:19pm
all the xtra features everyone is asking for. too bad its not still 1957. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2023 at 8:27pm
The more I think about these ag tires, the more I think that it may just be these Deestones that are not so good on rocks. They are very soft and flexible. I noticed our tractor at work has Goodyear ag tires and the chevrons are much stiffer than these Deestones. Something to consider.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2023 at 8:55pm
I heard a long time ago that when used on road the common Deestone mud 
/snow tread pattern tires yield a very poor service life.


Edited by oldtime - 13 May 2023 at 8:56pm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2023 at 9:25pm
anybody experienced with Power King Super Traction II tires?

15 inch is $115, 16 inch $150, free ship at walmart.

STA Super Traxion and Firestone NDT's seem to all be well over $250 each now. 


Edited by bight - 13 May 2023 at 9:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 9:25am
Originally posted by oldtime oldtime wrote:

I heard a long time ago that when used on road the common Deestone mud 
/snow tread pattern tires yield a very poor service life.

I recall every winter my Dad bought "snow tires" for the cars rears to get us through the Maine winters. One season and they were pretty much toast. When we built a house with a 3/4 mile driveway and plowed, our truck had these type tires as well. Super poor wear that was usually uneven.
These all had the basic tread design we are talking about.

Heavier vehicles though, so that does influence wear. I don't think on our jeeps it is much an issue but I don't run on pavement with my Traxions like many of you do/will.


Edited by jhg - 15 May 2023 at 9:26am
1948 cj2a. Rebuilt L-head, steering, T90, WO 636, steering, brake lines. So far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 4:28pm
Power King Super Traction II. LT7.00-15. $115 delivered.





Edited by bight - 26 May 2023 at 10:05pm
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 5:51pm
That looks like a near exact copy of the famous Goodyear X-tra Grip - Hi Miler
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
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Zero aftermarket parts

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 5:53pm
holey-moley, it does!

what a bizarre coincidence. 
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michaeltru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 7:08pm
Whoops. Already saw you posted size and where?   Sorry

Edited by Michaeltru - 26 May 2023 at 7:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 9:45am
mfg photo:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 9:46am
CJ-2A 72586 tan (stock)
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the wife abides (def: to bear patiently; TOLERATE)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Michaeltru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 10:49am
Looks like the tread pattern is different between your first photo and the link
Mike in AZ
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