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To Power or not to Power Steering

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GrandpasOld50 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Mar. 2018 at 9:36pm
I am working on a cj3a restomod.  I have completed a four wheel disc brake upgrade.  Now I am shifting my attention to the steering.  These are the only two systems I am planning to upgrade/change, for now.  The 3a has an F-head my grandpa installed back in the '60's, complete with the cut hood.  Eventually I plan to replace the F-head with a chevy V6, but right now I just want to get the jeep back on the road.  

My original plan for the steering was to do a manual saginaw, using advanced adapters power steering mount so I could upgrade to power steering in the future.  However, I have been reading about people installing power steering in jeeps with L-head and F-head motors.  so my question is this... is upgrading to power steering with the L-head or F-head motor a significant improvement over the manual steering?  Is upgrading to power worth the effort of building a motor bracket for the pump, adjusting pulleys, etc?  Thanks for the advice in advance.  
'50 3a with f-head motor
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berettajeep View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berettajeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar. 2018 at 10:11pm
If it was me I would just check to make sure the steering is functioning properly and be finished with it. When you swap over the V6 then I would maybe go to power steering. That way you can build the steering around the motor and not have to redo it.

Just my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Craig1017 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar. 2018 at 11:00pm
I agree with Dennis - wait till you go with the v6 otherwise you may end up redoing everything anyway.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is what your tire size aspirations are.  Tall skinny tires are OK  with Armstrong steering, if you plan to go with wider tires in your "restomod" - you may prefer to have power steering
 
Craig
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote otto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 1:39am
Depending on what manual box you end up with, it will have a “slower “ ratio than a power box. Mine is six turns lock to lock with a dropped Pitman arm. It is very easy to steer even with big tires. 
47 CJ2A w/fuel injected boat engine
48 CJ2A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepFever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 4:01am
Is this for offroad,  or mostly onroad?
 
I have manual Saginaw on my '2A,  and only notice it on fairly extreme trails.   On the road,  I can not remember a time I wished I had power.      There have been some times with a trailer, or other towed device,  that I wished I had power (or faster) steering when in reverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 4:18am
A Saginaw 525 manual box is a 6.25 turn lock to lock (not sure if you would even have to turn it that much to hit the stops on a Willys axle) and thats a LOT of mechanical advantage. With no drag on your HP running a belt and pump. Nor the problems with hoses and the radiator/grill.


Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized
1949 3A W/S
1957 CJ5 Frame Modified
Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962
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GrandpasOld50 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrandpasOld50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 3:23pm
Thank you all for the information and opinions your shared.  You have helped me out.  The Ross steering on the 3a shot and needs a complete overhaul.  That is the reason I planning the upgrade.  I was planning on using a Saginaw 525 manual box that are 6.25 turns lock-to-lock.  I have no experience with either that box or the power box, thus the reason I asked the question.  

Further confusing me is a neighbor with Saginaw upgrade on his 3a.  He talked about how much better the manual steering is, but when I checked out his jeep his is actually running power steering with a ford 289.  

I am now thinking I will just stick with my original plan of upgrading to manual steering using a Saginaw 525 box.     
'50 3a with f-head motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 3:57pm
Upgrading to power steering is a big improvement over a stock warn out system especially if you are going with bigger tires. I have done three power steering upgrades, one with the stock flat head and two with the Buick V6. Frame modifications are necessary and it will never be stock again. If you line up the column right you probably will not have to change it with an engine swap. I usually did a steering column swap at the same time so I had turn signals, but that can also lead to more work and questionable results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote binthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 5:46pm
Way back in 1975 when I built a CJ5, I went through the same think process. Power Saginaw or standard. My final decision ended up standard. A standard is like power steering compared to the stock jeep. The reason I went with the standard? If you're climbing a hill and you stall out, your power steering is now stiffer than your old Ross box!!  Made up my mind!!  Wink
chuck
1953 CJ3B "a fistfull of dollars"
1949 willys jeepster "a few dollars more"
and a few other retirement toys




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar. 2018 at 6:22pm
A simple upgrade to either manual system (Ross or Saginaw)is to install the 2 hole steering knuckle on the passenger side. 
That little bit of extra knuckle arm length gives you more leverage.
You could also switch to the one piece long tie rod set-up at the same time.
I now have P/S on my Jeep....but for the first 30 years it was manual Saginaw with the 2 hole knuckle.

Here's one for sale and what I'm talking about:



Edited by flatfender47 - 22 Mar. 2018 at 7:01pm
1947 CJ2A 225V6 SM420 D30 PLok/D44 D/Locker Warn OD 5:38s
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GrandpasOld50 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GrandpasOld50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar. 2018 at 7:59pm
I wanted the 2 hole steering knuckle, but I was 20 minutes to late.  If you see another please let me know. 

Chuck, I really like your logic.  I think I will stick with the manual box.  it will also keep me from robbing any power from the motor.  I really have no idea how long in the future it will be that I get to swap the motor.  I need all the power I can get.  I am planning on running some 33x10.5's.  
'50 3a with f-head motor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote binthere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar. 2018 at 9:41pm
There is another way to run your tie rods without the two hole knuckle. All you have to do is take the tie rod that runs from the bell crank to the passenger side, turn it end for end so that the tie rod end with the receiver end is installed into the left knuckle. Then you need a longer tie rod to run from the driver side to mount into the hole at the driver side knuckle. I hope some one can understand what I'm trying to say and help me to clear it up!
 If you look at a picture of original tie rod setup, you can see what I mean.
chuck
1953 CJ3B "a fistfull of dollars"
1949 willys jeepster "a few dollars more"
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flatfender47 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatfender47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar. 2018 at 11:10pm
1947 CJ2A 225V6 SM420 D30 PLok/D44 D/Locker Warn OD 5:38s
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