Took me 6 years, but I finally got one |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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Thanks for the advice Mike, I talked to Jeff today and he gave me
very similar advice.
After the carb
change, I had more power, but then something changed, and I was
lacking power all the sudden. It kept getting worse to where it
didn’t want to idle even more than before. That’s when I took it
to a friends house and we did the pressure test.
After the initial
frustration, I got over it and started troubleshooting. With the
valve guide off, I took a photo and sent it to Rick. He sent this
back. He noticed right away the valves were not in line with the
tappets, once he pointed it out, I could see it to.
I didn’t think I
was going to use the automotive plugs that Andrew installed so
quickly, but here we are. I’m grateful for sure, I was able to
disconnect a few bolts, unplug some plugs, and bam, electrical out of
the way.
I had a ton of
trouble getting my head off the block. I think the bolts were either
gummed up or warped. Whatever it was, I had a 2x4 and a ratchet
strap and all my might pulling up and it wouldn’t budge. Even
putting in wooden shims all the way around I was still fighting it.
Finally I gave up, got out a 3/8 bolt remover, and went to town
removing studs. The head came right off.
I’ve checked the
cylinders for size, and it looks like I’m .060 over. I also
checked for roundness and I’m within tolerances.
Bore size 90 degrees
apart:
Cylinder 1: 3.1775
/ 3.180
Cylinder 2: 3.1835 / 3.183 Cylinder 3: 3.178 / 3.180 Cylinder 4: 3.180 / 3.184 I then checked every
cylinder as best as possible they all look good except for #2, it has
a ring of pitting or rust that I can feel running my fingernail
across it, but not my finger. It looks like eventually I’ll need
to re-hone the cylinders. I’m not an expert, but I can’t see
where the valve seats have been replaced. They look original. With
this in mind, eventually I’ll need to do a complete engine rebuild.
On to the valves, I
took 2 very close pictures of the valves for cylinder 2 and 4. They
are both visibly not lining up, and you can tell when they are seated
that they are crooked.
I put an order in
tonight to replace the valves, valve guides, spring, retainer clip,
spring retainer, and tappet adjuster for the 2 exhaust valves. I
also ordered the same thing for the #3 cylinder intake valve because
the spring is crooked. A copper gasket, and an oil pan gasket to
clean up after the mess I make. I have an 8” valve compressor on
the way, and will be getting some lapping compound to do a bit of
sanding between the new valves and old valve seats.
I’ve seen it
mentioned that the studs should be installed with a specific tool,
but don’t know the name of the tool or the size that is needed for
the head studs. I’m also wondering what the correct size is for a
thread cutter to clean out the threads in the block and the head.
Well, now it’s
mostly a waiting game for the parts to get here. I’m sure it will
take a while, and then there will be a rush to get everything ready
for FCT. I guess I’ll have plenty of time to clean the head and
block.
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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The valve compressor tool came in the mail over the weekend. I used it to remove the #2 exhaust valve, and got very concerned about my valve seats. My worst fears were realized. Hardened valve seats were never installed. A quick chat with the experts revealed what you guys already know.
The issue was the valve seat, a new valve would not fix this issue.
With 2 weekends left until FCT, I decided to throw in the towel. There was no way I was going to get a machine shop to cut in new valve seats in 2 weeks. I had been defeated by a valve seat. I let the group know and went to take a nap. Half depression, half exhaustion.
A bit later Arick called and encouraged me to keep going. Within 5 minutes Jeff was calling as well with some encouragement and ideas on how to keep going. I started texting Paul and Andrew. I watched a metalshaper video on youtube where he used a mag drill to cut in new valve seats. If I could rent a mag drill, buy the right boring tools, I might have a chance. Sometimes we need our friends to help pick us up when we are down. Encourage us to keep moving forward when it seems like there is no way forward. I was so sure that I had failed, but things started falling into place. Andrew could get his hands on a Mag Drill. We found the adapters and carbide bits needed to drill out the valve seats. I got the the phone with Walcks and they were patient with me as I changed my order from 2 valves to all 8. They also worked with me to ship the valve guides and valve seats next day, and the rest standard shipping. Paul is having similar issues with his engine and we decided to split the costs on the tooling. Another friend let me borrow his engine crane and mount.
Everything seems like it’s coming together. We will see what other challenges await us. It could fail for so many different reasons, but I’m optimistic. |
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m38mike
Member Joined: 23 Apr. 2007 Location: Colorado High Country Status: Offline Points: 3798 |
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You can do this Brad, and when you do, you'll be so happy that you did. Count on your friends to help you out. That's what good friends do.
Work hard on Plan A, but be thinking about what Plan B could be.
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M38Mike
46 CJ2A SAMCJ2A 4?-5? CJ2A/3A/M38 Jigsaw 51 M38 Green Jeanne 52 M38 Blue Mule, 51 M100 Blue Mule Tale 52 XM38EV1 Electro-Willys, 52 M100 Juice Box |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Meathead’s gonna make it. Thanks to the dream team (Brad, Andrew, Paul)
I’m very encouraging when I don’t have to do any of the work. |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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The name Thumpy just isn’t sticking. Plus, that is what this jeep was. Not what it’s going to be. I’m thinking of going a different direction. I’m going to wait until it’s running again, but I have an idea.
And no, it’s not meathead!
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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Look, I get it. Coming up with a good name that sticks can be hard. “Meatball”, “Meatloaf”, and “Meathead” are obviously wonderful monikers but they all follow a common theme and there are even more original names you can come up with if you just unlock your creativity… for example:
Meatgrinder Meatman Meatpackaging Meat-N-Potatoes (works best with a trailer) …. Or if you really want to get outside the box and a little crazy, there is: Lunchmeat Sweetmeat Mincemeat I know you got it in ya to come up with a really cool name. Look forward to seeing which on of these choices you sellect!! |
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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oldtime
Member Joined: 12 Sep. 2009 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 4186 |
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I see the head pulling was one of the first problems you encountered. Maybe ….” DEAD HEAD”.
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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I have decided a name for our little group. Of the three of us Andrew is the smartest, tallest, and best looking. So I'm thinking "Andrew's Team". Probably going to shorten that up a bit and go with the A Team.
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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I thought Oak would be strong enough material to pull the valve guides, but I was wrong. Eventually I settled on a 32mm socket on top of a wood veneer. That worked, but it was still difficult. The #1 cylinder exhaust was the first one I tried and it took all the strength I had on a 16” socket wrench to get it out. The next 6 were easier, so that got me curious. I looked at some old photos and realized the #1 exhaust was installed upside down. The last one cracked while trying to pull it up, the next day Andrew was able to drill it out with the magnetic drill press. Andrew brought liquid nitrogen and we used it to cool the valve guides for easy insertion, and they all went in really well.
failed first attempt cracked right through the oak I needed 4 3/8 nuts to pull them all the way up, but I'm pretty sure mine were not set to the correct depth. busted up valve guide Andrew's "Baby" magnetic drill press liquid nitrogen! The shop isn’t setup for motors, but there is one old machine they have the L134 Engine fits in. It’s just old and hard to use. It took Paul and a co-worker about 3 hours to cut the first hole, but after that it started going much faster. We then decided to deck the block. Paul found an 8” bit that would work, so we went for it. We will be doing Paul’s engine next, and he was pretty excited that everything went so well. |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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Here is a short video of how easy it is to install the valve seats with liquid nitrogen |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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We based this list off of metalshapers video: 9/16" Seat Pocket Cutter Driver - .375 pilots Item# DCW-60-375 https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/dcwin375.html Tapered Carbide Pilot - .374" (9.50mm) Item# CPT-3740 https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/cpt-3740.html 1.562" Valve Seat Counterbore Cutter - Replaceable Inserts (exhaust) Item# RC1562DW https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/k-7156.html 1.625" Valve Seat Counterbore Cutter - Replaceable Inserts (intake) Item# RC1625DW https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/k-7162.html 3/8" Replaceable Inserts Item# K-4001-2 You really should probably have a .375 tapered pilot, but we just reamed the valve guides to .374. We will finish reaming them when the valves get here. |
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jpet
Moderator Group Sponsor Member x 5 Joined: 30 Apr. 2008 Location: Ramsey, IL Status: Offline Points: 11174 |
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That’s amazing. Gr8 job!!
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CJ2A #29110 "General Willys"
MB #204827 "BAM BAM" "We do what we can, and we try what we can't" |
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dasvis
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 07 Sep. 2019 Location: Salem, Oregon Status: Offline Points: 1550 |
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I don't know... I would be a little nervous about doing all of that machine work with the crank & pistons still in the block. Too much chance for metal shavings to get in there & cause issues.
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1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty" 1964 Thunderbird convertible ..... & one of them moves under it's own power!! |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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Thanks Jeff! Paul, Andrew, and one of Paul's friends really helped me out. I did jump in to do any manual labor that was required, but most of it was just me asking questions and watching. I did learn a lot about machining. This was my first time seeing a mill working from start of concept to end product. |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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I've been operating from a standpoint of "let's try it and find out". Which is kinda like Facebook's old motto of "Move fast and break ****", but they toppled democracies using that methodology, so maybe I should start to worry about these things. I'm moving forward on a set of assumptions that I don't know are true: 1) The head doesn't get oil, just water. There are no oil galleys are oil holes to worry about metal shavings. Before assembly I'll run water through the cooling channels and try to get as much metal shavings out as possible. 2) I'll thoroughly wipe off the cylinders, vacuum, air hose, put oil in them, do it all over before putting the head back on. 3) I've plugged the 3 large holes in the valve area that oil goes back into the block in. 4) The small oil galleys for the tappets will need to be cleaned out before I crank the motor. I'll probably do that today. There are metal shavings in there, and that could cause some issues. When it's time to lap the valves and ream the valve guides I'll run a shop vac the entire time.
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43 Flat-Fender
Member Joined: 22 Sep. 2020 Location: Louisville, KY Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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You're really lucky to have friends like that!
I'm sure many are following your progress here. We're all pulling for you.
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Rob
GPW 94445 (DOD 01-25-43) Built in Louisville KY Engine: MB341746 "Faithful Steed" since 1967 |
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BradR
Member Joined: 05 June 2017 Location: Kansas Status: Online Points: 133 |
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Just a quick update, I've been working every free hour I have, and just have not had time to document each step along the way. Uploading photos to this site takes forever, so maybe I can update with some photos later. Over the weekend I did a lot of smaller jobs, painting the fan blades, painting the water pump, cleaning off mating surfaces, and cleaning the metal shavings out of the motor. I used a metal pick and magnetized it, it does a great job of getting metal shavings out of the hard to reach crevices and corners in the valve train area. Parts came in Tuesday and I started on the valve job. I'm basically following metalshapers video and using the exact same neway valve cutters he is using. All I have to say is that metalshaper makes it look easy, and it's not. I spent hours trying to perfect my craft, but I could never get it perfect. The best vacuum I can pull is 14" and the worst was 9". It's just going to have to be good enough. Its still going to seal better than what was in there. I spent the remainder of today finishing up putting together the back seat. I used leftover oak from my stairs for the backrest supports. I think it looks pretty good. Tomorrow I'm going to spray the entire motor down with brake clean and turn it upside down, sideways, and flip it around. Wipe up everything and maybe even take a hose to it. We are running a no metal shaving gets left behind campaign. I'm also going to drop the oil pump run oil from the valve area through it, then brake clean, then prime the pump and reinstall with a new gasket. Once I prime the oil pump, the engine stays right side up. I wanted to install the oil pan the easy way, but no can do. My goal is to have the engine 100% metal shaving free by Thursday and start installing valves. Friday: install oil pump gasket(should be here Friday), oil pump, and complete assembled valve drive train. Saturday: Engine in Jeep Sunday: running engine, test drive, then oil change Monday: Tune up with dwell, vacuum, and timing, More driving Tuesday: Start packing for trip Wed/Thursday tie up lose ends Friday: Get Jeep loaded up and read to go. Saturday: Driving to Colorado Before I gave it a 10% chance I would make it, now I"m up to 60%. Still plenty to go wrong, but I'm holding out hope. |
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