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Oil Leak

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Lhead View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 June 2019 at 9:09pm
Thanks Thad, I'm happy that your fix worked. I'm at the point that I believe I'll have to do something like what you did. What I think I'll do is build up another engine and swap. Then I'll have the leaker fixed for a future project.

Larry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 June 2019 at 8:38pm
I posted earlier that I had my crank where the rear mail seal rides built up and then turned to 2.311. It is now back in the jeep and no leaks with about an hour on the motor. I did use Walcks neoprene seal. Hope this will be the answer for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 12:51pm
Well, I coated the outside of the seal with RTV, not the inside lip. BUT, like Rick Stivers said somewhere in his video series on rebuilding a T90, "RTV seems to go everywhere but where you want it to go". So there is no guarantee that some didn't find its way onto the lip part of the seal. Especially since you can't see anything once you start to work the seal over the top of the crankshaft. I'm thinking I'll go back with a rope seal but I'll have to see how things look when I blow it all apart. I'm going to live with the puddles for awhile so I can get some driving time in. I wish I could put a diaper on it! Ha Ha!

Larry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 67charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 12:35pm
Your post before the last said you coated the seal with rtv?  Do you mean you coated the actual rubber lip part in rtv silicone?  This could be your problem, the only thing that should be on a seal is oil, vasoline, or bearing grease. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 12:12pm
Well, I finally got a decent long ride, about 15 miles. It leaked same as before. Ugh! Nice fresh oil in a big puddle the size of a saucer. Same when I came home. I guess I've reached the point where I pull the engine and crankshaft and start over. I really hate to do that since the engine runs so well. It seems to have plenty of power (relatively speaking) and easily runs at close to 50 mph. 

I guess I'll take the crankshaft to a machine shop to have the rear main seal surface cleaned up while I have it out. Is there any other possible leak points on the real of the block into the bell housing? I just find it hard to believe a main seal can leak that much having just been replaced.

Thanks,

Larry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willyt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2019 at 12:44pm
Luck to ya. Hope it goes well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:07am
It's all back together. I ended up using the rubber seal standing beside the main cap in the first picture. There was no way I was going to get a rope seal up and around the crankshaft without dropping it. The new seal from Walck's slipped in and out too easily so I knew it wouldn't seal. The one I used fit pretty well. I coated it with RTV and got it in place. I've only driven about 4 miles and so far only have very minor drips, about dime size compared to dinner plate size before. The real test will be a longer drive when it stops raining. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Larry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2019 at 4:26pm
Duh!!! I guess I should read my own posts before posting! My measurement was 3.37 which is obviously bogus too, so I'll give up on the measurement technique since I don't have to proper tool. I'm beginning to agree with whoever said the only good way to fix the rear main seal is to remove the engine. I'm on my last attempt with engine in place. If that doesn't work, then out it comes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2019 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by Lhead Lhead wrote:

... is about 2.307" which falls into the acceptable range of 3.02-3.12 ...
.
Ummm...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2019 at 2:06pm
I got the new seal kit from Walcks yesterday and the neoprene seal has a pronounced lip in the front for sealing. However, I can easily slip the new seal into and out of the space between the block and the crank leading me to the conclusion that it would never seal properly. The old one came out pretty easily too. The best measurement I can get without a different set of calipers is about 2.307" which falls into the acceptable range of 3.02-3.12 but that measurement is suspect due to improper tools. The crank is too deep into the block to get a highly accurate measurement with normal calipers. I guess my next move is to try a rope seal.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willyt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2019 at 8:31am
I will be starting the engine this evening to see if my reinstall of the seal holds. This will be my third attempt. On install #2 I may have not used enough sealant on the packing rods, the bearing cap dropped as soon as the bolts were loosened. So a bit more sealant used this time.
If this reinstall fails I'm open to another type of seal. Right now I'm not considering a rope seal. If the Best seal is no.1, according to the parts counters people, I wonder who is no.2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 6:11pm
WillyT, to your point, the type of seal installed is almost like a rubber version of the rope seal, e.g. it didn't really have a lip (like the free standing one in the pic), but rather made contact with the crankshaft across a wider area, like 1/4". Another observation, when I took the seal out of the cap, there was a lot of oil around, under, and behind the seal. Makes me thing oil was going around the seal to block/cap area. I didn't use any sealant in there so that may explain the leak.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 5:50pm
I pulled the pan and rear main cap. Not without incident of course, in prying the pan away from the block it finally gave way and immediately flipped upside down. I had drained the oil but there must have been at least a couple more gallons in the pan. Imagine the mess. The first observation was that one of the two rubber vertical bearing cap seals fell out. Not enough RTV I guess. I was wrong about the type of seal I had even though I'm the one who installed it. You can see in the photo that it is different than the one standing beside it.



Looking up at the crankshaft, the seal surface looks pretty good and you can see the rubber seal still in place. 

At this point, I'm starting to believe the problem might have been the round seals that go between the cap and the block as the main seal looks pretty good. I should have new seals arriving from Walcks today. I'll see what type they are. Any suggestions?

Thanks, Larry...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willyt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 8:12am
Larry if it's not to late, when you install the upper half of the seal, look closely where the lips touch the crank. On my install one end of the seal flattens out and has good contact on the crank, on the other end only the tip of the lip touches the crank. That condition may change when the cap is installed and things are compressed. Just curious to know. Thanks
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2019 at 1:00am
I've been thinking about the seal issue. Probably overthinking it! But it seems to me that the rubber or neoprene type modern seal would only contact the crankshaft in a very small portion of the surface, e.g. only a few thousands. That small area would be prone to significant wear creating a groove that would make the replacement with similar seals have a difficult time sealing. On the other hand, a rope type seal would spread the seal contact area over a much wider portion of the crankshaft possibly mitigating some crankshaft imperfections. Of course there is no way a rope seal could outperform a well functioning modern neoprene seal in a perfect scenario but maybe it would work better with a less than perfect crankshaft surface area. 

Further to that thinking, while the neoprene seal might have a better seal to the crankshaft, it might not be sealing on its outer perimeter, e.g.against the block and main cap. It seems this might be a critical installation issue considering that the block was originally designed for rope seals. 

I'll know more tomorrow.

Larry...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bufordjeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 10:40pm
Larry am in the same boat.   Hope to hear good news.
May the flat fender force be with you,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 8:55pm
Thanks Thad. Tomorrow I'm pulling the pan and rear main cap to see if I can figure out what is going on. I'll post my findings tomorrow. I'm sure hoping I don't have to pull the engine and crank but I guess I'll find out. 

Larry..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 8:03pm
I have installed 3 neoprene seals with no luck. I have pulled the engine and found The clutch needs replacement and that the crank where the seal rides was pitted and could not be turned b/c of small diameter. I've had this area of the crank built up and turned to 2.311 and am ready to install with a rope seal. The cost for this one surface to be made new again was $60, a guide for what to expect. Sure hope it no longer leaks. I sure feel your pain but this might be your best way to proceed.
Thad
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