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Getting the Air Out

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jeepdidwhat View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 May 2019 at 9:16am
I ordered my brake speed bleeders from SpeedBleeder: http://speedbleeder.com/
They fit the regular wheel cylinders I got from Walcks, but I do not remember what the thread size is.  Maybe 1/4-28?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

Have you ever seen the "one-man" bleeder screws with the little check valve in them?  You can crack open the bleeder screw and just pump the brake pedal until the fluid is clean or bubbles are gone, whichever.  The check valve keeps air from getting in when you let off the pedal.  You still need to keep an eye on the MC level.  When you're done you just tighten the bleeder screw and go...and stop.  That's if you can find the screws, that is.  I have no idea where or if they're still available.



I ordered 4 of them on Fri. They Arrived today. And.... NO. they are way too large for the CJ2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:

Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

Have you ever seen the "one-man" bleeder screws with the little check valve in them?  You can crack open the bleeder screw and just pump the brake pedal until the fluid is clean or bubbles are gone, whichever.  The check valve keeps air from getting in when you let off the pedal.  You still need to keep an eye on the MC level.  When you're done you just tighten the bleeder screw and go...and stop.  That's if you can find the screws, that is.  I have no idea where or if they're still available.



Are these what you are referring to?

https://www.amazon.com/RUSSELL-639530-Russell-Speed-Bleeder/dp/B000CPJI1U/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8


That is the very thing!  I wonder if they're made for a 2A's wheel cylinders.


Edited by Ol' Unreliable - 25 May 2019 at 2:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 11:01am
Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:

Originally posted by Red Willy Red Willy wrote:

Keep in mind, if you pump the pedal to fast you will aerate the fluid. Slow steady pumps until you feel a pressure build up. I have had good luck with gravity bleeding. Open the the bleeder screw and leave it open until you have a solid flow of brake fluid. Topping off as necessary. Do this with all four cylinders. If that doesn’t get all the air out follow up with the pump and bleed.


How does gravity bleeding work??? If I open the bleeder valve, the fluid barely trickles out or doesn't come out at all. If I were to pump the brake with the bleeder open, each time I lifted the brake air would be sucked back into the bleeder.

Do not touch the brake pedal with the bleeder open for the reason you mentioned. 

If you open the bleeder and fluid does not come out you have major air in the line or a blockage. With all the bleeders closed, pump the pedal to attempt to get pressure. Release the pedal, remove the master cylinder cap and leave it off (reinstall before pumping the pedal), confirm the fluid level and then open the furthest bleeder screw. It may take awhile for fluid to start flowing, especially on the first bleeder. Repeat for all four. This method is not the quickest nor is it the best method, but works well for those that don't have a helper to pump the pedal. 

Glen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 12:22am
Originally posted by Ol' Unreliable Ol' Unreliable wrote:

Have you ever seen the "one-man" bleeder screws with the little check valve in them?  You can crack open the bleeder screw and just pump the brake pedal until the fluid is clean or bubbles are gone, whichever.  The check valve keeps air from getting in when you let off the pedal.  You still need to keep an eye on the MC level.  When you're done you just tighten the bleeder screw and go...and stop.  That's if you can find the screws, that is.  I have no idea where or if they're still available.



Are these what you are referring to?

https://www.amazon.com/RUSSELL-639530-Russell-Speed-Bleeder/dp/B000CPJI1U/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 11:36pm
[QUOTE If I were to pump the brake with the bleeder open, each time I lifted the brake air would be sucked back into the bleeder. [/QUOTE]
This is the second function of the catch bottle. You start out with the catch bottle about 1/2 full +- of brake fluid. with the flexible tubing positioned below the fluid level in the bottle any air bubbles will be pumped into the bottle then rise to the surface. When you lift the brake pedal fluid(not air) from the bottle will be pulled back up into the flex tubing. There's no reason to close the bleeder on each stroke of the brake. Most critical is keeping the reservoir full so you don't get air from the top. I always cut a short piece of wood that I can wedge between the seat and the brake pedal to keep the pedal partially depressed while I close the bleeder valve after the last pump. Some folks recommend putting grease around the threads on the bleeder valve some air won't be pulled in when the bleeder valve is opened.


Edited by 47 deuce alpha - 23 May 2019 at 11:53pm
1947 CJ2A Half the distance takes you twice as long.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 47 deuce alpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 11:14pm
How does gravity bleeding work??? If I open the bleeder valve, the fluid barely trickles out or doesn't come out at all. If I were to pump the brake with the bleeder open, each time I lifted the brake air would be sucked back into the bleeder. [/QUOTE]
Gravity bleeding is simply opening the bleeder valve and letting the brake fluid leak out without any pumping on the brake pedal. Just attach a length of clear tubing onto the bleeder and into a catch bottle and let it flow while keeping the reservoir full. It will be slow on a willys because the reservoir is not positioned much higher, if any, than the wheel cylinders (more height=increased hydrostatic pressure). Any contamination and blockage in the lines will also cause it to be slow. In theory you should be able to bleed all four wheels at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Unreliable Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 9:08pm
Have you ever seen the "one-man" bleeder screws with the little check valve in them?  You can crack open the bleeder screw and just pump the brake pedal until the fluid is clean or bubbles are gone, whichever.  The check valve keeps air from getting in when you let off the pedal.  You still need to keep an eye on the MC level.  When you're done you just tighten the bleeder screw and go...and stop.  That's if you can find the screws, that is.  I have no idea where or if they're still available.
There's a reason it's called Ol' Unreliable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Red Willy Red Willy wrote:

Keep in mind, if you pump the pedal to fast you will aerate the fluid. Slow steady pumps until you feel a pressure build up. I have had good luck with gravity bleeding. Open the the bleeder screw and leave it open until you have a solid flow of brake fluid. Topping off as necessary. Do this with all four cylinders. If that doesn’t get all the air out follow up with the pump and bleed.


How does gravity bleeding work??? If I open the bleeder valve, the fluid barely trickles out or doesn't come out at all. If I were to pump the brake with the bleeder open, each time I lifted the brake air would be sucked back into the bleeder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Willy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 1:19pm
Keep in mind, if you pump the pedal to fast you will aerate the fluid. Slow steady pumps until you feel a pressure build up. I have had good luck with gravity bleeding. Open the the bleeder screw and leave it open until you have a solid flow of brake fluid. Topping off as necessary. Do this with all four cylinders. If that doesn’t get all the air out follow up with the pump and bleed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Rus Curtis Rus Curtis wrote:


Don't mix!  Very good advice!
 
For me, I'm looking at using a screw-on pump to fill gear oil.  That way, I can use the original container and dispense under control.
 
Found one at Walmart.


Yep. Tried that. You are going to have two problems with that set up. One, the hoses are too short to get into the fill holes if you want/need to keep the container of fluid HIGHER than the fill holes to use gravity to assist.

Two, the pump on them is usually too weak to really get much done. You pump and pump and really get no where. I have had MUCH better luck with hand pumps like this: https://www.harborfreight.com/multi-use-transfer-pump-63144.html
the hoses are longer allowing you to keep the container above the fill holes and it does pump a larger volume with each pump. BUT, buy two (or 3) as they are also cheap and made in China and are prone to breaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 9:13am
Don't mix!  Very good advice!
 
For me, I'm looking at using a screw-on pump to fill gear oil.  That way, I can use the original container and dispense under control.
 
Found one at Walmart.
 

Added:  I gave bad advice.  That pump above could very well be cheap garbage (in my haste, I grabbed the first image that popped up on Google). 

 

The pump I have is a Quicksilver Marine Gear Lube Pump.  The part number is 802891Q 2. 

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Quicksilver-8M0072133-Gear-Lube-Pump-Outboard-or-Stern-Drive-3-8-16-Drain-Plug/17165291  (2nd image -w/o metal adaptor)

 

cal.bar's feedback really got my attention.  His experience had me doubting my choice.

 

But, since I had this marine pump, I was at least going to give it a try.  On my first attempt I used it on the rear axle.  The tiny wings on the hose adapter are plastic and wedged into the filler port and stayed in place when I twisted it into the threads.  The GL 4 85-90W Sta Lube pumped very well.  No spills and it emptied the bottle.  I haven't tried it on the gear boxes yet.

 

Thicker lube may be more difficult.  I just wanted to add this in case my post above misleads anyone.



Edited by Rus Curtis - 17 July 2019 at 8:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSR_MK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 8:38am
I agree with Bruce one this one. Cost me around 1,200$$ last year to replace the brake system on a New Holland tractor. Brakes are in the final drive which run in hydraulic  fluid so the breaks also use hydraulic fluid. Brake fluid was added to the system to top it off and dissolved the seals in the master cylinder as well as the cylinders in the final drive. 

Brake fluid and oil are not enter changeable. 

Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal.bar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

  If you use one of those to fill your transmission/transfer case, it should be labeled and used only for that from then on. NEVER risk getting even a drop of oil of any kind into your brake fluid. It only takes a very little bit of oil to destroy all of the rubber parts in an entire brake system!  BW


WOW - I didn't know that. (not in the manuals)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 1:32pm
  If you use one of those to fill your transmission/transfer case, it should be labeled and used only for that from then on. NEVER risk getting even a drop of oil of any kind into your brake fluid. It only takes a very little bit of oil to destroy all of the rubber parts in an entire brake system!  BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveBonny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 12:42pm
I second the Motive Products Power Bleeder.   Takes all the pain and suffering out of it.  I have an old filler cap from a failed master cyclinder I use with teh power bleeder.

I also found that this tool is pretty handy for filling your transmission / transfer case oil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rus Curtis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 9:24am
Originally posted by cal.bar cal.bar wrote:

Did I need to have him pump it up each time after closing the valves?  What am I missing?
No leaks that I can detect and the MC is less than a year old.  Had perfect brake pressure before I tore it all apart before the axle rebuild.
 

Definitely pump several times to build up pressure - doesn't need to duplicate a "panic stop" but needs to be firm.  One push won't build enough pressure to force all the air out.  Peddle doesn't move until you secure the screw, so positive communication really helps. "Pump it up."  Thump, thump, thump.  "Okay, ready."  Open the bleed screw, watch the stream and close before the stream stops (see below).  "Pump it up."  etc, etc.  Working with someone that doesn't do this on a regular basis may need some gentle coaching.

 

I personally had shifted to closing the screw before the flow stops (to keep a bubble from back flowing).  The order is furthest to closest. That back rear has a long run and it may be possible to cavitate in the master cylinder so my preference is to keep the m/c topped off ( the assistant can help watch this through the inspection hole). Right rear, left rear then right front, left front. I also keep bleeding until the fluid runs clear - even after the bubble.

 

That was then.  I was taught how to pressure bleed and won't do it any other way now.

 They have a red aluminum threaded cap that matches the threads for the m/c.  I had to add a rubber gasket to ensure a seal. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jasonbass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 8:09am
i always pump brakes 3 times then hold it down onto the floor before cracking the valve. or you can get a "one man" brake bleeder tool at your local auto parts store. its a hand pump that works fairly well 
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