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Trouble Driving in Valve Guides

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usmcpmi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcpmi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Unkamonkey Unkamonkey wrote:

Generally, valve guides are not a big deal. A friend wanted me to go do some on an old Case diesel crawler. OK. Old valve guides are gone. Should have been the first clue. I grabbed a new guide and set it in place. Slid down and landed on the cam. We have problems here that I can't deal with. I just called him and told him he needs a new motor.
Sounds like he has the wrong guides...they probably make oversize guides too...JMHO....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 10:39am
This type driver could cause that to happen to guides. as you mentioned you purchased a driver.

'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 5:44pm
USMCPMI, good idea to check the OD of the old and new guides.  The old is between 0.6575 - 0.6560, the new ones are consistently 0.6580.

Here's the driver and the new guide


Here's the driver on the new guide


Here's the driver with 3/8 grade 8 washer

I'm going to try heatlamp on the block, lube on the bore, and washer on the driver.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcpmi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 6:07pm
.002 should be doable with the block warmed enough and the guides cold. 
Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan. 2019 at 7:21pm
The washer should do the trick and spread the shock load of driving them over the whole top of the guide. 
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeepSaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan. 2019 at 1:30am
.... and the lube won't hurt either Wink

Let us know how you get on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 1:40pm
Thanks for the tips.  It's going well.  I have 6 of the 8 guides in.  The washer on the end of the driver worked well.  Also, warming the block with the heat lamps, freezing the guides, and lubing the bores.  I did break another exhaust guide - I probably struck the driver off center and put some horizontal force  on it.  So I'm waiting on the two more exhaust guides.  I'm getting ready to measure the guide bores to seem if I need to ream them, then time to cut the valves seats.  I'm thinking about trying to reverse the guide puller I made to press/draw the cylinder #4 Exhaust Guide in. Any thoughts?

Heatlamps warming the block - outside temp 25, block warm to the touch

Broken exhaust valve guide

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan. 2019 at 5:10pm
Just to say - best of luck with the last two, and - this is better than watching a TV thriller

LOL 

I've been checking in over the last two days just to see if there was an update...

Is it my age?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcpmi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan. 2019 at 11:17am
Question. We're the guides all left in the freezer until actually installed? Just wondering if they had any amount of time to warm up a little before trying to drive them in...although, the possibility of hitting them off square could have broken them sounds likely.
I have to commend your work ethic.... 25* outside would put me inside until spring! I guess we just have it easy way down here in Texas!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 1:29am
Yep, I left each one in the freezer until I was ready to drive that one in.  They seemed to go well.  The one I snapped off was my poor hammer control.  Kind of funny how it broke clean off.  Regarding the work at 25 degrees F.  I've gotten used to it.  I used to live in Virginia and when I did Mid-Atlantic heat and humidity (90 F with 90% humidity) had its drawbacks too. 

I'm hoping to cut the valve seats tomorrow, but I need to measure the guide bores and see if I have the right clearance for the valve stems.  I have a sneaking suspicion that I'll need to ream them.  I'll probably start a new topic about that.

Thanks again for all the ideas and insights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcpmi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 10:21am
Ranger 42, do you have the tools to cut the seats already? I have the tooling if you need it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 2:32pm
Thanks for asking.  I have the Neway 234: 45 deg - 30 deg cutter and  pilot.  When I began this project I was just going to cut a straight 45 deg. seat per original manual direction, however I did start experimenting with cutting the cyl # 1 seat, and it was so out of round, to get it down and make it concentric the seat ends up being wider than the 3.2 mm spec.  So I'm thinking I'll need the Neway 205 60 deg cutter too and cut a 3 angle seat to achieve the correct contact width on the 45 deg angle.  I expect that at least one other seat will have this issue too.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usmcpmi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 3:26pm
Ok. I have the 30/60 cutter if you need it. I did the same thing on mine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeeper50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 7:14pm
I ran a .375 reamer thru the two guides that the valve stem wouldn't drop in to when I did mine. take pics of the puller you fab up to share with others

Edited by jeeper50 - 28 Jan. 2019 at 7:17pm
'53 Cj3B 4 cyl D25/D44 lockrights,11" brakes, Belleview ol skool winch.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 9:13pm
Thanks for the offer of the cutter.  I'm going to be doing a full rebuild on another L134 engine I have, so I plan to purchase a 60 deg cutter to have with my tool stash.  All I need to do is figure how to get an engine from my brother's place in Pennsylvania to me in nowhere AlaskaLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan. 2019 at 9:21pm
Jeeper50,
I decided to remove the motor mounts and tilt the engine forward to install the cyl. #4 exhaust guide instead of rigging a reverse puller to press it in.  I figured placing all that force on the upper  inside of the  valve spring / tappet area might result in something cracking that I can't fix: aka block.  All I need to do is move the engine an inch. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranger42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb. 2019 at 1:27pm
Thanks everyone for the input on getting these valve guides driven in.  I received the last two exhaust guides yesterday and drove them in no problem.  I pulled the motor mounts and jacked the engine down about 2 inches to drive the cylinder #4 exhaust guide in.  Good thing I pulled the mounts too since I discovered one was broken.  Always something to fix. Keeps it interesting.  Next step is guide reaming.  I'll try to start a new topic on the reaming, cutting the seats, and re-assembly when the reamers arrive next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote srlbotanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb. 2019 at 7:53pm
Congratulations!

Glad you got them all in.

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Steve
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1997 TJ - The Trail Rig
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