Turn signals (using relays) to keep a stock look |
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JeepSaffer
Member Joined: 26 Sep. 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1181 |
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Posted: 14 Mar. 2018 at 2:28pm |
In September 2017 I was at the stage of needing to decide how I was going to handle turn signals on my CJ2A project. I was torn between wanting to retain the stock look front and back, but wanting turn signals for safety and ease of driving. I remembered a member mentioning in a post how he had used relays to wire in turn signals to his stock lights, and I tracked him down. Terry Hackney (TERRY on the forum) provided me with a wiring diagramme he had used on his rig, and after researching it and getting all the bits and pieces, I gave it a try. I have just completed this mod on my CJ2A and it works perfectly. This method allows you to keep your stock marker lights and tail lights, together with their stock functions, but allows turn signals to take priority over the wiring when you are turning. It is fully reversible. You do not need to modify anything on your Jeep other than the wiring. I believe it is one of the best compromise solutions out there for those that want turn signals on their jeep, but want to keep the stock look. I am not the first CJ2A owner to have grappled with this issue. Having found a good solution (with Terry's help) that can be built by anyone at home in their workshop, I resolved to give back to the CJ2A forum by writing a "How To" on this topic that anyone could understand. A downloadable .pdf file is accessible below which contains all the information on how it works, what you need, and how to do it. A wiring diagramme is included on the last page. Let me know if you find the guide useful - it would be good to know that it has been used. If there are errors that need correction, please also let me know and I will correct the guide and repost. Cheers! Mike
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1948 CJ2A #204853 in South Africa
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Wow - that looks very helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
Steve
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ggordon49
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 30 June 2017 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 1436 |
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Yes, very nice! Great diagrams and information, easy to follow and very useful. Great job!
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LuzonRed47
Member Joined: 11 Apr. 2007 Location: Plymouth, MI Status: Offline Points: 842 |
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Terry's turn signal 'tech sheet' is one of the most professional how-to documents I've ever seen in the Jeep hobby. Really well done!
There's always the issue of being visible in today's traffic, which is orders-of-magnitude denser and crazier than it was in the late 1940s when our jeeps were new. My dad upgraded his (now mine) 2A with front fender mounted turn signals soon after he bought it in 1947. Purists today tend to shun fender turn signals, and I'm debating whether to reinstall them in my restoration. But unless you're heading directly toward a 2A/3A that has its parking lights wired as turn signals, you likely won't see that the guy is signaling a turn. Fender signals at least elevate the flashing lights so they can be seen from the side of the jeep. And having 12V rather than 6V aids the cause, too. The fender-mounted signals on ggordon49's blue jeep in his avatar pic are the type that was common for many years.
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CJ2A #140275 "Ziggie" (purchased new by my dad in 1947)
ACM #124334 CJ3A windshield, Warn Overdrive 1953 Strick M100 trailer Serial #18253 |
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ggordon49
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 30 June 2017 Location: Connecticut Status: Offline Points: 1436 |
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Had them on my old International KB-3 too Recently sold this truck for home repairs, I miss the truck
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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After reading through the instructions I'm very impressed with the thoroughness and detail. The only thing you might want to add is a reference to the equivalent 6 volt relay and holder part numbers. You provide the 12 volt versions which is great, but there are still a lot of 6 volt jeeps out there too.
Steve
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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Buckeye
Member Joined: 03 Dec. 2009 Location: MN/OH/MI Status: Offline Points: 496 |
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This couldn't be more timely. Very easy read and very professional. Thank you for your hard work.
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1946 CJ2A #21766
1946 CJ2A #31484 Retired US Army Chief Warrant Officer |
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LuzonRed47
Member Joined: 11 Apr. 2007 Location: Plymouth, MI Status: Offline Points: 842 |
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Man, I'm groovin' on that green KB-3 'Binder!' The KB series are one of my fave vintage truck 'famiies.' I can see why you're still heartbroken on selling it.
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CJ2A #140275 "Ziggie" (purchased new by my dad in 1947)
ACM #124334 CJ3A windshield, Warn Overdrive 1953 Strick M100 trailer Serial #18253 |
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JeepSaffer
Member Joined: 26 Sep. 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1181 |
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Some very kind comments above, thank you gents. I hope the information is useful.
Steve, these "Relé" brand relay sockets (part number ZMEM/5), will take many different relays of this brand, rated up to 10A. It turns out that the E51 relay will handle both 6V and 12V DC (up to 10A), so for this brand you can use the ZMEM/5 socket with the E51 relay for both 6V and 12V applications. In which case the contact pin numbers on this socket referenced in the wiring diagramme in the guide will be the same for 6V and 12V. Note that this is FOR THIS BRAND ONLY. "Relé" is an Italian brand - I have no idea if it is even available in the USA. The important thing is to understand the principle of the wiring digramme and how SPDT type relays are used to achieve the outcome. Just to be clear - a SPDT relay is a type of relay (single pole double throw), not a part number. In English: "one circuit being switched, two possible switch positions". If you are planning on carrying out this mod to your wiring I would recommend talking with your local electronics supplier and finding out what SPDT relays and holders are available for your local brand. Check their voltage and amp rating. If the pin numbers are different to those I have supplied, which is most probable, then go through the simple switching circuit for your brand and make amendments to the diagramme as necessary. |
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1948 CJ2A #204853 in South Africa
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ndnchf
Member Sponsor Member x 2 Joined: 22 Sep. 2017 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 2177 |
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Thanks for the clarification Mike. I'll make notes on my printed copy.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepSaffer
Member Joined: 26 Sep. 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1181 |
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In case anyone was wondering how much this all cost, I found it pretty reasonable:
For my local prices converted into $ equivalent at current rate of exchange: 1 x SPDT relay with socket/base = ~$8. 4 sets required = $32 DIN rail sold in 1m lengths for less than $2. That's $34 for all the relay hardware, excluding the indicator and flasher unit. Universal indicator units seem to retail around $40. Add flashers with a bracket for around $10. Small lengths of suitable wiring as needed. So a grand total of ~$84 if you are starting from nothing. Around $34 if you have an indicator unit and flasher already and are just buying the relays.
Edited by JeepSaffer - 16 Mar. 2018 at 2:38pm |
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1948 CJ2A #204853 in South Africa
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TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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I used 6v automotive relays such as this
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BOULDER 48 2A
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JeepSaffer
Member Joined: 26 Sep. 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1181 |
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Thanks Terry.
Different pin arrangement and pin numbering, but the wiring diagramme is identical. It should be easy to translate these pins numbers to the wiring diagramme presented in the guide. Do you remember the cost, and if bases were available? Is there any easy way to mount this type? Mike
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1948 CJ2A #204853 in South Africa
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TERRY
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 22 May 2007 Location: BOULDER COLORADO Status: Offline Points: 3400 |
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I just used 1/4" spade connectors (crimp on), but sockets are available-- but you still need the spade connectors pushed into the socket.
I also bought a couple relays that can be soldered directly to a printed circuit board but decided not to go that route. http://www.newark.com/durakool/dg85b-8011-96-1006-m1/automotive-relay-spdt-6vdc-60a/dp/30M9197?CMP=KNC-GUSA-GEN-KWL&mckv=|pcrid|190485037160|&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1q3VBRCFARIsAPHJXrGEvO1hoKhbp9NMZUvqly6m6BdWLFmwJX19iA9TCfE4ZiSYznzWSt0aAu2JEALw_wcB Edited by TERRY - 17 Mar. 2018 at 12:06am |
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BOULDER 48 2A
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Mark W.
Member Sponsor Member Joined: 09 Nov. 2014 Location: Silverton, OR Status: Offline Points: 7982 |
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There are also small dual element bulbs that might fit some sockets. Speedway Motors has them. Thats the route I went for the park lights on my CHUG.
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Chug A Lug
1948 2A Body Customized 1949 3A W/S 1957 CJ5 Frame Modified Late 50's 134L 9.25"clutch T90A D18 (1.25") D44/30 flanged E-Locker D25 5.38 Since 1962 |
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Dagha Boy
Member Joined: 16 May 2021 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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thanks Jeepsaffer
I have been wracking my brains as to how to overcome the indicator problem on the '47 2A and '62 3B I am busy restoring. I will have to put both through the roadworthy test and am wondering whether the flashing red taillight is going to make the grade or whether I'm going to have to run some temporary wires and extra magnetically mounted amber lights for purposes of the test and then convert to your system. One way or another there is no way I'm going to plak extra lights onto them permanently. Thanks for the solution.
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JeepSaffer
Member Joined: 26 Sep. 2014 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 1181 |
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Glad I could help.
I went through COR just fine with a flashing red light as an indicator at the rear. That said, I can't guarantee that there is absolute consistency between COR testing stations. ie my experience may not be your experience. I believe that some inspectors will take the age and historic nature of the vehicle into account when running the test. I was led to believe that seat belts were a must, so I installed some lap belts that just bolted on to the body at the seat frame bolts - more to tick a box than to actually provide any kind of restraint. In the end they never even looked at them - but again, I can't guarantee that this will be your experience either. It may help to ask around the local clubs where a suitable "vintage friendly" COR testing station is. I even visited mine before the test and asked to speak to the inspector, and explained I had a '48 car, and asked what he was going to test. My primary concern was the left hand drive and the brakes.... in the end the brakes weren't tested at all. Was this in recognition that the brakes are drums on all 4 corners and not up to modern standards? I can't say...and the left hand drive didn't seem to bother anyone either. Let me know how it goes.
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1948 CJ2A #204853 in South Africa
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Dagha Boy
Member Joined: 16 May 2021 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Thanks. I'm in Plett the nearest test centre is in Knysna. I have used them a few times and sometimes they go to great lengths and at others just go through the motions. I will take your advice and go and have a friendly chat for "advice."
Glad you're still active on the forum. I'm busy gathering parts at present. I need a lot for the 2A. Last week when I was in Gauteng I went to Mickey Harris' place and was very disappointed. They do not really have parts other than for the 1960s CJ6s. 40 years ago they had lots of 2A stuff but I guess all sold now and not replaced. Some of the parts I bought proved to be wrong when I got home and when I checked prices against US prices I found in some cases I had paid more than double. Not an experience to be repeated. Mickey died in late Feb but the notorious attitude remains. Thanks again for the advice. |
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