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Two jeeps

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Hillwillys View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Dec. 2019 at 7:25am
Well, several years ago I started a project thread on here for my ‘47, and eventually life got in the way and work on it stopped. It sat for around 4 years. A couple weeks ago a ‘52 Cj3a followed me home and I’ve started working on it some and started back working on the ‘47. 

I’m starting this new thread to keep up with both jeeps and have a place to ask the questions I know I’ll have along the way. 

Some info:
The ‘52 was supposed to run pretty good, but we couldn’t get it fired up when I got it, but I traded for it anyway. It was a wiring issue, the wiring was terrible. It came with a brand new wiring harness from kaiser-Willys. I’m going to use that harness as a template and wire this Jeep with regular wire and save the harness for my ‘47. It’s an older 12v conversion so the first thing I did was cut loose all the old 6v stuff and got that out of the way and rewired the switch, starter, distributor, alternator and a cheapo electric fuel pump. 
After disassembling and cleaning the carb I Got it running fairly easy and have enjoyed some yard drives and a quick run around some backroads around the house about 8 miles or so. Everything seems fine so far with the engine, no smoke or noise or major leaks. 
I must have wired the alternator wrong because it killed the battery. It’s a Delco 10si 3 wire and i think I need to wire the number 1 terminal in the alternator plug to a dummy light for a load and then to the switch. Right now it’s not wired to anything. Also the cheapo fuel pump went out, so I have to buy another. So that’s where I am with the ‘52. 

The ‘47 has sat for several years now and I’m in the process of reviving it.  
So far on the ‘47 I have removed the spark plugs and soaking the cylinders in MMO, drained the oil, removed disassembled and cleaned the carb, removed the radiator and both fenders,(makes life so much easier) removed all hoses and the heater, removed the transmission shifter cover and cleaned and degreased under there, removed the gas tank (after I clean it out I’m going to put it in the ‘52 temporarily until the ‘47 is running) removed fuel pump, and a couple other small things. 
The plan from here is remove the skid plate, (it’s being a pain, I’ve got the bolts soaking in 50/50 atf and acetone, so we will see how that works as a penetrating oil in a couple days) drain the transmission and transfer case, and axles, see if I can disassemble and clean the fuel pump and clean out fuel hard lines, clean up the heater some( the blower motor worked last time it was running) and I want to flush out the radiator and cooling system while I’ve got it all apart. Other than that I’m just scraping, degreasing and cleaning the engine trans and transfer case and lubing every nut and bolt I see. 

Would now be a good time to remove the manifold and check the valves? Any other tips or advice on things I should be doing or addressing right now? 

Hopefully soon I’ll have my old truck out of the shop and be able to pull the ‘47 in the shop and start a small budget for it. Until then I’m looking for anything I can do to make progress that’s free or cheap. 


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Stev View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2019 at 8:10am
Hillwillys,

Welcome back to the CJ2A Page! 

You seem really motivated and are really getting after it!  Personally, I would try to finish the parts that you have already began to work on before taking on more of this 47 project.  

The only thing that I see that you could screw up by accident is putting the wrong gear lube in the transmission and that lube eating the synchronizers and creating the need for a transmission rebuild.  GL1 for manual transmissions with gold metal parts is what it calls for.

Post some pictures when you have a chance.
Stev
1946 CJ2A Trail Jeep (The Saint), 1948 CJ2A Lefty Restored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2019 at 9:36am
Thanks Stev! 
I am motivated. Trying to keep making progress on these jeeps, no matter how small. There’s going to be a lot of degreasing and wire wheeling in my near future! 
There is really no rush on the ‘47 right now so I’d rather go ahead and do a lot of the time consuming small things right now while it’s apart. 
I’ve read about the gl1 before, thanks for the reminder. Hopefully someone before me didn’t put in the wrong stuff. I did notice that the transmission didn’t want to shift into 2nd or 3rd gear yesterday. Hopefully it’s just seized from sitting. I’ll find out later today when I pull the shifter tower. 
Here is a couple pics of the ‘47 current status:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec. 2019 at 10:26am
Life DOES have a nasty habit of getting in the way.... been there Ermm

(the 50/50 is my favorite rust penetrant, just have to remember no synthetic Smile )
1946 CJ2A #69750 - "Plowshare"
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1969 Kaiser CJ5 (sold)
1973 AMC CJ5 (sold)
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Analog spoken here....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2019 at 10:31pm
Well, I got the skid plate off of the ‘47, finished up the first round of degreasing on the engine and scraped all the gunk off of the trans and tc. One more good degreasing on the engine and a couple rounds on the trans/tc should get it done for now. It was bad... Lol. 

I pulled the drain plug in the transmission...lots of water. Same thing in the transfer case. I pulled the shift tower and inside transmission actually doesn’t look bad considering all the water. I’m going to assume the transfer case looks about the same inside. 
I’ll try to post some good pics tomorrow and get opinions. 

I’m reading what I can find here on the page about water in the transmission and I’m thinking I’ll be able to run it. Hopefully. 
In the meantime, I’m thinking maybe try brake cleaner and a nylon bristle brush, like a bottle brush type, and try knock loose as much rust scale as I can, then try to flush with brake cleaner again to flush the scale out of the case, then spray some lubricant/oil in the case and on the gears to prevent flash rust until I’m ready to put all new fluids in the Jeep. Once I get it running, fill with gl1 and run a hundred miles or so and change.? Does this sound right? Is there a better method?
If this sounds good, how should i go about flushing the transfer case also, assuming it’s in the same condition? 

Hopefully this weekend I’ll get another electric fuel pump for the ‘52. That or I was thinking disassemble and clean the fuel pump off of the ‘47 and try it. Unfortunately I think its going to be a while before I need it on the ‘47. I still need to figure out the clutch issue with it too once I get a fuel pump on it. I hope it’s just in the linkage. There is bailing wire and extra springs and some big ol booger welds and nails for cotter pins etc etc. so I’m hoping it’s something going on with all that and not a sticking clutch. Going to read up on that some too this weekend. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec. 2019 at 10:53pm
Assuming a t90/d18 they share lubrication, probably why you have water in both. When you say "rust scale" it gives me pause.  Pics will definitely help, but the reuse of "iffy" parts will be directly tied to your personal tolerance for risk.

Did the water come out clear or orange?
1946 CJ2A #69750 - "Plowshare"
Bantam T3-C #15849
1969 Kaiser CJ5 (sold)
1973 AMC CJ5 (sold)
2016 JK unlimited (Hers)

Analog spoken here....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 6:05am
Hey mbullism, 
Yes it’s a t90/d18 combo. The rust didn’t look bad to me. I’ve seen pictures of some that were a lot worse. I say rust scale because most of it looked flakey and loose to me. 

Ideally I’d rebuild it, but right now that’s not an option. Judging by some of the old posts I did find on the subject, I’ll be able to run it but there’s a possibility the bearings are pitted and damaged from the rust and I’ll either have a transmission that functions but is noisy, or I’ll tear it up good. Lol.
 I’m hoping that despite the amount of water that came out, it’s not too bad and I’ll be able to run it for a while. I’ll try to get some good pics posted this evening. 
The water that came out was mostly clear as a bell with a small amount of rusty water. 

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These are the best pics I have right now. The rust on the bottom
Gears is worse than the top, but still not terrible I think. 
I’m going to try to get some better pictures this evening to show the worst rust spots
. One concern I did have was that I noticed my transmission wouldn’t shift into second or third. 
I did not try to force it and only used normal pressure, it’s obviously rusted together, but possibly not bad 
And will hopefully break loose with a good soaking/flush and bump it pretty good. I’m hoping anyway. 
I may end up having to do a rebuild tho. Who knows. 
  First and reverse shifted fine and the transfer case did too. The Jeep was not running when i tried the shifter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 11:49am
  “not terrible I think.”

Shocked What would it take to make you think “terrible”? Teeth rusted completely off?
  I would not try to run that transmission as is. It WILL be noisy and it WON’T last long. You may end up damaging the case. I just threw away two sets of T90 gears in better shape than those. But maybe I’m just spoiled....     BW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by mbullism mbullism wrote:

...but the reuse of "iffy" parts will be directly tied to your personal tolerance for risk...

I hate quoting myself LOL... me personally I wouldn't waste my time unless it was a dedicated yard dog.  I wouldn't trust that liability too far from home base Confused ...but that's me

The thing with most(?) gears is that they are case hardened..any pitting through that hardened surface is like the perforations in notebook paper, and a piece of a tooth floating around rotating meshed hardened steel is a grenade pin.

Second thing is that oil floats...the reason for the rust line in the bottom of the case, that's where the water goes.  I have really bad feeling about all the little needle bearings in the cluster gear as well as the CG teeth themselves.  Again, if one gives up the ghost it takes everyone around him with him.

I have no worries that you can't shift into 2 or 3 because you aren't rotating things as you shift... but the visual gives me pause.  I wish I were home cuz I'd snap a picture of the little tub of discarded gears and shafts I have from only two refurbs I've done... I'll go look to see if I have any previously posted Confused
1946 CJ2A #69750 - "Plowshare"
Bantam T3-C #15849
1969 Kaiser CJ5 (sold)
1973 AMC CJ5 (sold)
2016 JK unlimited (Hers)

Analog spoken here....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 12:28pm
Ok. Thanks guys. I was just going by a couple old posts I found here on the page regarding water in transmission. I saw a couple that looked worse than mine and I think the responses about it being functional but noisy had my hopes up that I could get away with mine..... oh well. 
The bottom looks a little worse and being that that’s where the bearings are that was my main worry, but if you guys are saying the gears that you can see in the pic are trashed, then I know the bottom ones are trashed. 
Dang it. Oh well. 

I do have a spare t90/d18. The whole time I’ve had it it’s been tarped, I can’t say for sure that it was covered before I got it tho. I’ll be pulling the inspection plate in those this evening I guess. Maybe they’re usable. 

If I have to swap or rebuild the transmission and transfer case, I may as well pull the tub and start from the bottom up right? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berettajeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

I just threw away two sets of T90 gears in better shape than those. But maybe I’m just spoiled....     BW</span>



Could have thrown them my way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 4:43pm
To be clear, I'm not saying don't...I'm saying that I wouldn't Wink.  If it were mine and I ran it it would wait until I was more than an uncomfortable walk from home, sunday night and cold with no cell service...and it wouldn't wear out quickly...

...it would wear out suddenly LOL

I'm no expert, I'm just seeing a lot of pitting on the contact faces of several gears teeth is all.  Generally these conversations are in the context of all the work required to drop it, disassemble it, clean and reassemble, and reinstall...  That's a lot of time and effort to not spend a couple bucks to avoid doing it over again.  If you're willing to risk getting "some" time out of it and possibly losing the case as well to put the time effort and money off a bit on a bet that may work for you (a.k.a it's not much more effort to remove a grenaded tranny than what you have going now).  You may consider the risk acceptable, especially if you refurb the second set you have so it's ready to go that sunday night Thumbs Up
1946 CJ2A #69750 - "Plowshare"
Bantam T3-C #15849
1969 Kaiser CJ5 (sold)
1973 AMC CJ5 (sold)
2016 JK unlimited (Hers)

Analog spoken here....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by berettajeep berettajeep wrote:

Originally posted by Bruce W Bruce W wrote:

I just threw away two sets of T90 gears in better shape than those. But maybe I’m just spoiled....     BW</span>



Could have thrown them my way

  I’m not only spoiled, I’m also cheap. If I had thought that they were useable at all, I would have kept them. I would not have let anyone else have them even with the understanding that they “might be ok for a little while” because of the risk that after grenading his trans he could come back and cry “You said they’d be alright!”  AMWIATWH. BW
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

We Have Miles to Jeep, Before We Sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 6:05pm
Mbullism, Bruce, you’re right. after cleaning it I do see more putting than I initially thought, you hit the nail on the head tho, my line of thinking was try to flush this one and use it while rebuilding the other. 
I figure it won’t see much if any real road time other than backroads for a while and an occasional trip to town until I can for certain know that it will get me home. My ultimate goal right now to have it or the ‘52 daily driver capable. I would love to log some serious miles in a Cj2a. Mostly off-road of course! I’d love to come out west and follow some of you guys around on some of those trails. So the goal right now is to at least be confident enough in my Jeeps reliability to Do either of those without worrying about anything breaking because of being old and worn out and not serviced. But until I can rebuild my Jeep to those levels of dependability, it likely won’t see much more than some weekend cruising around backroads and maybe a trip to town if I feel lucky and adventurous. 
That being said, for now I think I’m still going to try to clean this one up as much as I can, oil it, run it some, flush it, and use it until I can get the spare rebuilt. Then I can keep it running and driving somewhat until I have the parts needed to take the tub off and rebuild. That way the Jeep won’t sit for so long again. 
I’m about to pull the other transmission cover and see what kind of shape it’s in 
I took a few more pics after brushing the rust scale off with a toothbrush and a quick spray of brake cleaner. Here they are

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 6:27pm
Well damn, here’s the spare 
WackoWacko 

So, yea. The plan is to try my luck. This may not end well. Lol. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 6:44pm
  There, that one looks "terrible". Wink I recently tore one down that looked a lot like that, too.

  "So, yea. The plan is to try my luck. This may not end well." It may be a learning experience, at least. Smile   BW



  
Happy Trails! Good-bye, Good Luck, and May the Good Lord Take a Likin' to You!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hillwillys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec. 2019 at 7:56pm
Bruce, I hope you’re wrongBig smile but with my luck you’re probably right Confused   My main reasoning is primarily to keep the Jeep running so it doesn’t just sit again while I’m saving for parts. I don’t foresee it getting much road time. Definitely not far from home, unfortunately. 
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