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Vintage Hobart welder - L134

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dasvis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep. 2022 at 9:04pm
Well, expect to be back on this thing next week. 
Daughter’s wedding is over. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep. 2022 at 12:40am
Got the fuel system rigged up, oil changed & disconnected the governor setup. Running the old carb off of my '47 CJ. Bore size is same as what came off of the Hobart, so I am pretty sure someone put a CJ WO carb on it. This carb has a pretty worn throttle shaft, but I know it works. Put new fuel hose on the electric pump that came with it & pumped from one jerry can to another so it's good. Also scrounged up a little 0~60psi oil gauge & screwed it into the oil galley. 
 All that's left to do is check for spark & fill the cooling system & it should be ready to test fire.
 Should I clean the mouse mess out of the generator first?

 On a side note, I took the ancient welding cables to the recycler & got $44 for my troubles.
 Just about pays for the tires I had to buy - BONUS!


Edited by dasvis - 21 Sep. 2022 at 12:43am
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricksslatts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep. 2022 at 9:32am
My welder has a 110 v power supply coupled to the welder motor..those were both crammed full of critter nests..my mechanical fuel pump looks exactly like the on on your welder...i was looking for a willys powered welder for quite some time, then one day a co-worker told me he inherited an old welder from his father in-law and asked me if I was interested... we made a deal, and that's how I ended up with it.
Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep. 2022 at 2:53pm
Yes, clean all the mouse nests out of everything. You do not want that crap to fly everywhere. Also if you have any thoughts as to getting the generator working, it is best to clean out all the crap that might hurt the bearings & brushes. Trust me on this, BTDT!

That is a good looking generator set. I am glad that you are repairing it, well at least the engine anyway. .
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dasvis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep. 2022 at 3:05pm
Yeah. Was just looking for an excuse not to have to clean out the generator.  I did not want to go there, but yeah, it’s the right thing to do. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep. 2022 at 11:01pm


OK, I cleaned out the mouse mess in the generator side, pulled the oil pump & distributor and got them back in correct timing as per factory. Installed new points & condenser, set gap @ .020 & eyeballed distributor position.
 Installed plugs & ran ignition wires. Drained & filled cooling system - it holds water!!
 Hooked battery up to starter & my remote start button, ran a hot wire to + side of coil, clipped old electric fuel pump to battery, gave it a few seconds to get fuel to carb & fill the bowl. Cranked it over a couple of seconds & it started!!
 Smoked A LOT, but not too surprising as there are 2 quarts of oil in the exhaust system from my ATF & MMO soak. 
 Oil pressure good @ 40PSI, no weird noises from the lower end. Ran pretty smoothly considering that I did not even touch the distributor to adjust timing once it started. I let it get to operating temp & shut it down.
  There will be no mosquitos in my neighborhood for sure. I love the sweet smell of burning oil in the afternoon.

1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ricksslatts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep. 2022 at 11:45pm
Glad to hear you got it running...I'm waiting for some rain so I can fire mine up to do a little bit of welding on an old 8n tractor that belonged to my dad...as I mentioned before the serial number of our motors are fairly close..i I' guessing that these units were probably made in the late 50's or early 60's. I don't know for sure.
Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2022 at 12:49am
I'm guessing early '60's.
 There is no temp gauge on this, but I see a 1/2"? pipe plug above the distributor in the head that I can tap into. Pretty sure I have a temp gauge in my leftover CJ crap. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep. 2022 at 3:24am
Good news!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct. 2022 at 12:45am
Looks like a good way to source a replacement engine. A similar unit is up for sale in Medford but from my untrained eye it might be a newer model. (F134?) Any notable differences between the industrial and vehicle engines block/head?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2023 at 5:45am
I'm finally back on this Old Hobart.
 Pulled the donor L134 from the welder on Saturday, tore it down for internal inspection yesterday.
What I found:
 - Very little sludge in oil pan 
 - Crank is 010/010 & looks really nice, no scoring of bearings. Maybe a tad more thrust clearance than there should be.
 - Pistons have no markings on top & are cast "Willys" inside. All appear usable with no apparent ring land wear. Have not measured bore yet.  4:16AM - measured piston at 3.125" standard bore!
 - Bores all look good, virtually no ring ridge! Hoping for minimal taper - we will see.
 - #1 con rod is early type with 7/16" rod bolts, all others late 3/8" bolts. 
 - Has rotators on BOTH intake & exhaust valves.
 - Hard seats installed in exhaust. Valve seats all look decent, a few valve have a tad more slop in the guides than they should - not horrible though.
 - Cam & tappets look great.
 - Pulled all soft plugs, some minor rusting inside of block, but have seen much worse.
 
Block is going to get hot tanked & evaluated at the machine shop today. I did not see any obvious cracks in the usual spots, keeping my fingers crossed. It has a Willys industrial head on it now, but I have two CJ type Jeep heads in my stash. Having shop check the for flatness & cracks. Will be using whichever one turns out to be good.
  Not sure how I want to go on the intake valves... do I keep the oddball rotators, or go back to standard? 
 Taking crank to my local grinder for him to check over. With luck all it will need is a polish.

Could turn out to be a fairly inexpensive overhaul. I could probably put this back together with just new gaskets & it would be fine, but I don't like to leave things to chance.
  We will see what we will see.....

Parts needed --
 - The dipstick & tube appear to be shorter on the industrial engine. Need correct unit.
 - Crank pulley different I think. May need one.
 - Intake on it looks to be off of a standard L134, at least a stock WO fits. Need to verify this.
 - Going with a 12v alternator, so goodbye to industrial generator. Need 1-wire Delco Alt & mounting bracketry.
 - I have a good 97 tooth flywheel, I plan on running the Nippondenso gear reduction style starter.
 - Have a good bellhousing, not sure if I have the plate between block & bellhousing.. gotta do some digging.
 - Looks like a CJ2A front motor plate was used on this, I have a CJ3A type in stock, so good there.
 - Think I will need a proper water outlet & of course a new water pump & thermostat with spacer.
 
 I will have an industrial flywheel, starter, governor setup, generator & the remains of the welder up for sale soon if anyone needs any of it.

 Pics to follow when i get the time.



Edited by dasvis - 01 May 2023 at 7:36am
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2023 at 5:56am
Originally posted by James K James K wrote:

Looks like a good way to source a replacement engine. A similar unit is up for sale in Medford but from my untrained eye it might be a newer model. (F134?) Any notable differences between the industrial and vehicle engines block/head?


 OOps, I missed this back in October - sorry!
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2023 at 4:13pm
I would keep the rotators on all of the valves. That is an upgrade. The valves last longer with them installed.

Why are you changing out the dip stick? Just for it to be "correct" for the Jeep police? I would leave the original one on it. OTOH, I do subscribe to the theory of "If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it. The dipstick worked before, it will work again.

Same thing with the crank pulley. If it works...

On the intake, just be sure that the bore hole is as large as it is on a CJ. Most industrial applications used a carburetor with a smaller bore then the CJs. The intake often had a smaller bore as well. Look for this.

As far as the "remains" I wish I were closer is all I can say to that.

IHTH, Cpt Logger.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbullism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2023 at 5:52pm
Not sure if this helps or hurts, honestly...but it's free LOL

I have an RMC engine out of a PE95k genset, came with rotators on all valves.  A foray over to willysm38jeeps got me to there are multiple rotator setups for the M38/M38A1 ilk, but I never did find any reference to rotators on the intakes.  I managed to further cross ref mine with those on F-head exhaust valves, but still no info on them on intake valves.  Links and discussion here <---  I left the rotators on all valves and that engine has been in my 2A a couple years now just purring.

I also have an RJ engine out of a hobart, RJ316553...pretty late in the game as I recall.  I have pulled the head and pan to measure bores and bearings, but had not yet pulled the cover to find rotators or not.  Maybe I'll get to that this weekend and we can compare notes.

Anyway, my vote is leave them in if serviceable, I had two that were sticky/crunchy and sourced two NOS but they were full of crystalized "something"...I recall cleaning them all up and using the best 2 out of 4 and haven't looked back-

MB
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... Welcome to 1930's Germany
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dasvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2023 at 8:07am
Thanks for the comments & suggestions guys, appreciate your input.
Capt, wish you were closer too, hate to just take the carcass to the recycler, but need it gone soon.

 May post it on Craigslist to save me from having to tow this sketchy trailer again. Especially now that the engine is gone... I'm afraid without that 750# or so on the front end it will be popping a wheelie once I take the jackstands out. 

 Is the governer setup worth much? It's there & looks complete. 
1947 CJ2A #88659 "Rat Patrol"
1953 CJ3A #453-GB1 11266 "Black Beauty"
1964 Thunderbird convertible
..... & one of them moves under it's own power!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2023 at 1:26pm
Yes, the governor is worth pulling. Many farm Jeeps used a governor to run accessories like a saw or a welder. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lee MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2023 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by cpt logger cpt logger wrote:

Yes, the governor is worth pulling. Many farm Jeeps used a governor to run accessories like a saw or a welder. 


Two different animals, the welder would have a “Fixed Speed” governor….. The Ag Jeep would have a 7 position adjustable speed governor. I do agree it’s worth saving but does not hold any great value like the Ag governor.

Lee😉
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cpt logger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2023 at 1:45pm
Lee, Thanks for the information.
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