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Walck's Front Springs - Stiffer than Expected |
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oldtime 
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 Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 4:44am |
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To a point more leaves is better than less so long as they are also thinner.
Otherwise more simply means increased payload. Another way to look at this is that the payload rating is mainly due to the thickness of the complete spring pack assembly. Imagine we have 2 spring packs at same payload rating but one spring pack assembly has fewer yet thicker leaves. In general the pack with more and thinner leaves may have the same payload but the pack with more/ thinner leaves is less stressed and so it is more durable. I believe this is the case however we must remember that more leaves also means an increase of area where friction occurs. If one could truly eliminate the friction between leaves then that would be ideal. Originally the Jeep springs were painted with graphite between the leaves.
Edited by oldtime - 24 Apr. 2020 at 4:46am |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
T98-A Rock Crawler using exclusive factory parts and Approved Special Equipment from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) Zero aftermarket parts |
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ndnchf
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 12:55pm |
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Nice work Ron. I'm not quite clear, which two leaves did you end up removing? Did you re-arch them in a similar manner to how Seth did it last month? Geeez, what a pain to have to go through all this. I would expect better from Walck's….
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 1:31pm |
 I forget exactly which ones I removed, but from the photo above, it appears to be the ones just above the leaves with wraps. ie counting from top, on the 10-leave pack, #3 and #7 Edit: I remember now, I did remove 3 & 7. I kept debating on #6 or #7, but decided on the shorter one. I was thinking of maybe cutting #6 down to be half the distance between #5 and #8, but decided not to take the time.  The photo above shows even better how much thicker/stiffer the new ones are, compared to what I took off. Note: OilLeaker mentioned taking 2 leaves out also. #3 & #5. I did not catch it when I first read his post. He did not cut the wraps, but simply tapped the leaves out, after removing the center bolt. That would be an option for someone who did not want to re-arch. Did Seth post something about re-arching on this forum? I don't recall seeing it, and could not find in a quick search. I did these in a 20-ton press. I used 2 heavy angle iron pieces to set the leaf on, they were constrained by the side frames, so could not kick out. It took a while to figure out how far to push down to get the proper set, but after I got that figured out, it went a little faster. It was time consuming, and I still have to figure out how to redo the wraps. I think Walck's should offer a "standard" spring with 8 springs for lighter vehicles, and the 10-spring for those who need more load capacity up front as the "heavy duty" option (big winches, snow plow, wagons or trucks etc) Time will tell, but I think this modified 8-leaf pack will be a good match for Walck's rears on my '2A. Their rear springs are what I would consider "heavy duty" also, and normally I would not want that, but fairly often I load up Wilson with as much firewood as I can stack on it, and now I want to start carrying fuel and spare tire rack while on trail. The rear looked squatted down when doing those things before, with my older springs. Edited by JeepFever - 24 Apr. 2020 at 6:56pm |
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ndnchf
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 1:41pm |
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Ron - Seth did a video on re-arching his worn spring using a Harbor Freight tubing bender. I know it was on several of the fb groups, can't remember if he shared it here. Maybe PM him, I'm sure he'll share a link to it. Or check his youtube channel.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 1:43pm |
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Ron - when you get this sorted out and close to stock, you should share it with Carl Walck. Maybe he'll take it to heart and make an effort to correct them. It wouldn't hurt to try.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 1:53pm |
I might do that. As mentioned before, I think there are customers who probably think the existing ones are just right, but he might want to consider 2 different options. a standard and a heavy duty
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ndnchf
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 2:04pm |
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I bet he'd sell a lot more if he pointed out that they are American made and are exact duplicates of the original stock springs.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 24 Apr. 2020 at 2:26pm |
Found the link: Similar in concept to what I did (except on press -> the ram is moving down  )The thing nice about that tubing bender is that the outside supports are fixed, no chance of going anywhere. In my method, the angle iron was just setting on the press bed, and would tip a little sometimes. There was no place for them to go, so I did not feel it was dangerous, but was still a little spooky.
Edited by JeepFever - 24 Apr. 2020 at 7:00pm |
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JeepFever
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Posted: 25 Apr. 2020 at 2:58pm |
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Found out that it is much more difficult to put things back together when all the parts are "tight". The spring bushings/bolts etc. on the old suspension were shot, and had a lot of slop. Trying to line up everything was harder than before. The only way I could get it all together was to leave everything loosely bolted, (U-bolts on spring plates, shackles, etc)
Final results (before wearing in) -> lift in front = 1.0" . . from 4.25 to 5.25 (top of axle tube to bottom of frame) Before: (fronts not installed, rears are)  After: (both fronts and rears)  |
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ndnchf
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 6:01pm |
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So now that you've had them on a week or so, how do you like them?
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 7:06pm |
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I really have not been able to drive much recently. I did have to move Wilson out of garage to work on car. Before doing that, I put the NDTs back on.
It was too windy, so not much fun driving, but did go about 5 miles round trip. It is stiffer than the "stock" ones, but not really that noticeable. Here is an "after" photo with the NDTs.  My intention was to get a pretty photo with sunset. In that photo the sunset was pretty, but could not see the Jeep, it was too dark.  So this angle does not show sunset, but can see the Jeep better.On the way in and out of this field, I crossed a deep ditch at angle. It did fine, so not sure I can tell if it lost any flex. I plan to write up a "results/thoughts" post once I have driven more, but my current thought is that I like the setup now. If it settles a little, I will like it even better. I just wish I could have bolted it on, without the work of removing two leaves, and re-arching. I still need to redo the rebound clips. :-( Edited by JeepFever - 05 May 2020 at 7:08pm |
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ndnchf
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Posted: 05 May 2020 at 7:20pm |
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Thanks Ron. Its too bad they wont make them like the originals. I look forward to your final report.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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ndnchf
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Posted: 19 May 2020 at 8:21pm |
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I got down and took a good look at my springs and am not happy with what I see. Both front and rear have 11 leaves. They look like someone mixed and matched them. Some leaves are thicker than others....grrrr. On the front, I measured the distance from the top of the axle tube to the bump stop. Its about 2". Not much. Ron - is this the same measurement you are getting 4.25" or .4.5"? If so, than mine are really sagged, even with these extra leaves.
  I'm not doing any serious offroad use, so would prefer to go with 8 leaf fronts. I may be able to get a set of slightly used Rancho 1" lift springs from a friend. But I've read that these require "H" shackles, you can't use the "C" shackles. Does anyone know if that is true?
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 19 May 2020 at 10:19pm |
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That is quite a mixture of springs. :-)
My measurements are from top of axle tube to the bottom of frame (not to bump-stop) I thought that would remove as many variables as possible. Yours appears to be missing the rubber pad, if I am looking a photo correctly. Yours also appears to have some kind of "landing pad" on top of axle. Mine does not have those, but mine are not stock axles. So just guessing, yours might be 3" from top of tube to bottom of frame, that is shorter than the 4.25" that my old springs were, and shorter than the 4.5" that OldTime measured (which is probably the closest we are going to find as "stock") The Walck's springs were approx 4.25/4.5" also, before I re-arched them, now they are approx 5.25" Currently mine is 1" higher in front and 1.25" higher in rear (when loaded with spare tire and gas can) compared to before when empty. I still have not driven much to see if it will settle. Planning to do some off-roading in a few weeks though.
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ndnchf
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Posted: 19 May 2020 at 10:46pm |
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Thank Ron. This is quite a mess. But I've been driving it for a couple years now - as they say "ignorance is bliss"
For my mostly easy street use, I'm thinking of the 8 leaf Omix springs from summit. At $70 each for the fronts. Those would probably feel like a cloud compared to these 11 leaf springs cobbler together from leftover dump truck parts.
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1948 CJ2A - It goes nowhere fast, but anywhere slow.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 21 May 2020 at 4:28am |
I was out working on mine some this evening and thinking about your situation. It probably goes against the grain of some experts, but if I was in your situation, I would rework the ones you have. Those tapered leaves are probably original, and look so cool. Remove the thick ones from center of pack, and re-arch all the tapered ones. The rebound clips one yours are not stock, so could be easily replaced. I have re-arched quite a few springs over the years and never had any fail, although of course YMMV :-) Especially for easy street use, I can't imagine they would get over-stressed, and I bet they would ride even better than Omix If you decide to replace those tapered ones, I will take them.
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JeepFever
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Posted: 21 May 2020 at 4:39am |
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Re-torqued the U-bolt tonite. I was surprised how much they had loosened-up/stretched.
After re-torquing, then cut off excess.  |
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JeepFever
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Posted: 06 Jan. 2021 at 4:17am |
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I wish I had taken better notes, but based on what I did record:
These springs settled some initially . . maybe 1/2 inch . . . after a bunch of "full stuff" tests immediately after install, and a 2-day organized ride at Southington off-road park. Many months later, no further sag . . . A good sign of quality.
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ndnchf wrote: